Israel and World War III part four

[spence]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Are you saying that its not true?

Yes, I think it's complete BS intended to present a black or white option...

-spence

[MakoMike]

Spence,
O.K. what part of it do you disagree with. Do you think the Israelis would continue to attack hezbolla if they laid down their arms and said they wouldn't fight anymore? Or do you disagree that Hezbolla would overrun Israel and massacar the jews if they didn't put up a resistance?

[spence]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Spence,
O.K. what part of it do you disagree with. Do you think the Israelis would continue to attack hezbolla if they laid down their arms and said they wouldn't fight anymore? Or do you disagree that Hezbolla would overrun Israel and massacar the jews if they didn't put up a resistance?

I think the entire statement is bunk, here's my typical long winded response. It's so humid my fingers are sticking to the keyboard, and I can't get them free

Put simply, it's not an objetive statement. It's a wedge intended to influence people to one side only.

On that basis alone I reject it's value, because I don't want to be manupulated. by someone with an agenda.

It's unfortunate that our Puritan roots so easily push us into black or white decisions...but the real world is quite gray.

The reality is that the majority of Christian Arabs in the region support Hezbollah as a legitimate resistance organization formed in response to Israeli occupation.

Additionally, Hezbolla provides social and health programs for a very large population. This is in stark contrast to the holocost scenario presented in the statement.

That doesn't mean they're your perfect next door neighbor, certainly they're guilty of horrific acts. But Israel doesn't exactly have a clear record either, and from an Arab perspective...it's worse!

More to the point.

I believe that there are just as many uber Zionists who want to take all of the West Bank from the Palestenians as there are uber anti-semites who want to expell the Jews to the sea...a small number of both relatively speaking. This fight is being fueled by the extreme who want to position their man on deck for the end of days.

But both Jews and Arabs are perfectly capable of living side by side and in peace...they've done it throughout history and in they do it today, there are over 2 Million Arabs living in Israel right now.

Giving credence to the statement bolsters the positions of the radicals on both sides...and does nothing to help construct a meaningful solution.

-spence

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by spence

I think the entire statement is bunk, here's my typical long winded response. It's so humid my fingers are sticking to the keyboard, and I can't get them free

Put simply, it's not an objetive statement. It's a wedge intended to influence people to one side only.

Isn't that the point of the discussion, to decide which side we should support?

Originally Posted by spence

On that basis alone I reject it's value, because I don't want to be manupulated. by someone with an agenda.

Manipulated? Agenda? Your opinon, as well as mine and all the other in this discussion won't matter one iota in the decision making process. If you want to debate the subject at least be ibtellecutualy honest.

Originally Posted by spence

It's unfortunate that our Puritan roots so easily push us into black or white decisions...but the real world is quite gray.

Black and white? The quote you are referring to isn't about black and white its about determining who is the responsible party for the current hostilities. But lets assume for a minute that we are trying to determine, who is right and who is wrong. what's wrong with that. Isn't that the real question anyway? We should support whomever we think is right. That's got nothing to do with out Puritan roots, my family came here long after the puritans and their mores have no influence over my positions. Its simply a matter of determining what is right for our country.

Originally Posted by spence

The reality is that the majority of Christian Arabs in the region support Hezbollah as a legitimate resistance organization formed in response to Israeli occupation.

You better go check your polling numbers again. The vast majority of the Marionite Christians in Lebabnon seem to support he Israeli side in the currnt imbroglio. The Marionite Christians fought the Hezbolla for years and years.

Originally Posted by spence

Additionally, Hezbolla provides social and health programs for a very large population. This is in stark contrast to the holocost scenario presented in the statement.

And how many of theos grateful recipients of their largesse are Jews? Seems to me the only thing thay have been doing for Jews is lobbing rockets at them.

[QUOTE=spence]That doesn't mean they're your perfect next door neighbor, certainly they're guilty of horrific acts. But Israel doesn't exactly have a clear record either, and from an Arab perspective...it's worse![/Quote}

Why do we have to lok at it from an Arab perspective? We should be trying to be objective about it.

Originally Posted by spence

More to the point.

I believe that there are just as many uber Zionists who want to take all of the West Bank from the Palestenians as there are uber anti-semites who want to expell the Jews to the sea...a small number of both relatively speaking. This fight is being fueled by the extreme who want to position their man on deck for the end of days.

In cae you missed the fact, the jews have withdrawn from the Gaza and were in the process of withdrawing from the west bank. So I guess those ultrazionists aren't represented byt he Israeli Government.

Originally Posted by spence

But both Jews and Arabs are perfectly capable of living side by side and in peace...they've done it throughout history and in they do it today, there are over 2 Million Arabs living in Israel right now.

Thanks you for proving my point. The jews are obviously willing to live with the arabs, its the arabs that want to crush the jews.

Originally Posted by spence

Giving credence to the statement bolsters the positions of the radicals on both sides...and does nothing to help construct a meaningful solution.

How do "construct a meaningful solution" with someone whoe expressed desire is to kill you?

[spence]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

Isn't that the point of the discussion, to decide which side we should support?

Not at all...it's about how we go about supporting the side we do.

Put simply, do you think Israel has the right, or that it's in our National interest for them to be given a "blank check" to respond to any threat however they choose?

This isn't about right and wrong, ultimately both sides share blame for where they are today.

Why do we have to lok at it from an Arab perspective? We should be trying to be objective about it.

This is a non-sequitor

In cae you missed the fact, the jews have withdrawn from the Gaza and were in the process of withdrawing from the west bank. So I guess those ultrazionists aren't represented byt he Israeli Government.

It's strategic positioning, Israel wasn't conceeding anything...and in case you missed the fact, Jewish settlers had to be removed from Gaza at gunpoint

Thanks you for proving my point. The jews are obviously willing to live with the arabs, its the arabs that want to crush the jews.

Now you're just stereotyping

How do "construct a meaningful solution" with someone whoe expressed desire is to kill you?

You're missing the point...the solution doesn't like with the extremists, it's with the masses in the middle...

And I'm not sure what polls you're looking at, but even Rush Limbaugh reported that the majority of Americans in Lebanon are Hezbollah supporters!

-spence