Are our soldiers in Iraq going insane?

[MrHunters]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Happens in War folks (unfortunately). Vietnam ring a bell?

my thoughts exactly... the difference (hopefully) this time is we won't be turning our backs on our soldiers when they return. I remember 2 years ago saying, no way will this turn into a vietnam...

[likwid]

So that one that fessed up dropped his defense of having looked for help but gotten none for battle stress.

Interesting...

[spence]

Originally Posted by MrHunters

my thoughts exactly... the difference (hopefully) this time is we won't be turning our backs on our soldiers when they return. I remember 2 years ago saying, no way will this turn into a vietnam...

There's another excellent book (yes, I read quite a bit) called "The New American Militarisim" by Andrew Bacevich which discusses (among other things) how the phyche of the troops transformed after Vietnam from a "citizen soldier" to the volunteer we have today...

There are certainly some on the far left who view the troops as thugs, but if you're going to be a real pacifist that would make some sense...although this is a tiny fracton of the population.

I can't fathom the same anti-troop attitudes we saw (ok, I was born in 1970 ) towards our troops today...but I do think the GOP has skillfully manipulated genuine anger towards our policy machine and redirected it directly at the troops.

A glaring example of this is (again) Rep. John Murtha's compassion for injured Vets being twisted into weakness and emboldening terrorisim.

I'm agast at the Administration comments about the Ned Lamont primary win over Sen. Joe Leiberman...here we have the democratic process alive and kicking with a huge voter turnout and it's painted by top Bush Administration officials as a win for terrorisim and emboldening the enemy.

What the %$%$%$%$ is going on?

I really wonder when people are going to wake up and realize that our leadership is ruling under a banner of fear, as if they were being led by the devil himself.

Please let me know a single time in our great countries history that we overcame tremendous challenge through FEAR.

This isn't my America.

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Fear only exists in those that are afraid. I choose not to be afraid and I'm not.

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Fear only exists in those that are afraid. I choose not to be afraid and I'm not.

Ok, but there are 300 million others that may not share your exceptional fortitude.

-spence

[Redsoxticket]

Fear of loss and danger is a great motivational tactic in convincing both the strong and weak. Once this administration expires the truth or history will be written because those that speakup now could place their jobs/livelihood in jeopardy because of fear of loss.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Ok, but there are 300 million others that may not share your exceptional fortitude.

-spence

Thats their choice, so be it. There is absolutley no doubt in my mind that the same ones accusing the administration of fear mongering will be the same ones accusing the administration of not properly emphasizing the seriousness of the threat if and probably when a strike occurs.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Thats their choice, so be it. There is absolutley no doubt in my mind that the same ones accusing the administration of fear mongering will be the same ones accusing the administration of not properly emphasizing the seriousness of the threat if and probably when a strike occurs.

BINGO!!! 21 dirtbags arrested in a London airliner attack today. But i guess we shouldn't worry about terroism, because according to some, its all a scare tactic to make us scared.

And from whats i'm hearing, the plan they thrawted was pretty close to going down.

This is WHY we are at war with radical Islam. If you people dont realize it now you never will. We cannot let our guard down or they will destroy us one by one. Anyone doubt they are not trying to?? We MUST stay on the offensive. Its not even an option, we have to.

Anyone wanna takes bets that these 21 arrested are all muslim?

And after yet another terror plot stopped, should we still continue to search and frisk 90 year old ladies at the airports? or can we finally search the middle eastern dudes in thier mid 20's??

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Thats their choice, so be it. There is absolutley no doubt in my mind that the same ones accusing the administration of fear mongering will be the same ones accusing the administration of not properly emphasizing the seriousness of the threat if and probably when a strike occurs.

To date the bi-partisan 9/11 comission has given the Bush Administration failing grades on their actions to enact reasonable bi-partisan recomendations to secure the country against terrorisim.

If or when (god forbid) there is another attack on US soil, the criticism will be coming from all sides...mark my words.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

This is WHY we are at war with radical Islam. If you people dont realize it now you never will. We cannot let our guard down or they will destroy us one by one. Anyone doubt they are not trying to?? We MUST stay on the offensive. Its not even an option, we have to.

Skipper-poopy-lou,

I'm not sure you really appreciate the geo-political events during the Cold War that influenced the rise of "political" Islam which is where the problem lies.

It's clear you're mighty afraid, but can you think of any times when your ability to make prudent judgements has been enhanced because of your fear?

Also Skippy, here's a chance to put your money where your mouth is.

Would you support mandatory extra security screening of young Muslim men at US airports, even if they were US citizens?

-spence

[Skitterpop]

BINGO!!! 21 dirtbags arrested in a London airliner attack today. But i guess we shouldn't worry about terroism, because according to some, its all a scare tactic to make us scared. (Skip N)


Terrorism is a fear tactic...............Boo!

Even though we have geographic distance from all this crap I cannot believe that anyone does not have some fear.... our worlds operate in many ways through fear.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by spence

Would you support mandatory extra security screening of young Muslim men at US airports, even if they were US citizens?

-spence

Yes, i'm hearing the terroists they arrested in the UK might have been UK citizens. So yes, who in thier right mind would'nt after this? You can honestly sit here and tell me that no muslim US citizen has ties to radical Islam? Of course some do. To think some dont is crazy.

Unlike you, i have the balls to say what most Americans are thinking. We know who fits the profile of the terroists, so lets give them an extra look at the airport. I dont get caught up in the PC bull%$%$%$%$. We know who they are, lets give them an extra look, Its damn worth it to prevent would could have happened in the UK.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

Yes, i'm hearing the terroists they arrested in the UK might have been UK citizens. So yes, who in thier right mind would'nt after this? You can honestly sit here and tell me that no muslim US citizen has ties to radical Islam? Of course some do. To think some dont is crazy.

Fair enough.

BTW, have you ever read the Declaration of Independence?

-spence

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

BINGO!!! 21 dirtbags arrested in a London airliner attack today. But i guess we shouldn't worry about terroism, because according to some, its all a scare tactic to make us scared. (Skip N)


Terrorism is a fear tactic...............Boo!

Even though we have geographic distance from all this crap I cannot believe that anyone does not have some fear.... our worlds operate in many ways through fear.

On 9/11 we saw the danger and pure evil of radical Islam, how could anyone say they don't have some fear? We know they want to hit us again, just look at the UK today, they are at it again.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

On 9/11 we saw the danger and pure evil of radical Islam, how could anyone say they don't have some fear? We know they want to hit us again, just look at the UK today, they are at it again.

Well, that fear was more than manipulated to get us into Iraq.

A little fear can be good as it brings caution. A lot of fear is bad as it clouds judgement. When you're afraid you don't think, you react.

For instance, a lot of fear of young Muslim men would lead someone like you to ignore the foundations of Liberty and strip someone of their civil rights because you are afraid.

That just doesn't seem right now does it?

As an aside, I'm not black or white on all profiling...but it's a slippery slope.

-spence

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, that fear was more than manipulated to get us into Iraq.

A little fear can be good as it brings caution. A lot of fear is bad as it clouds judgement. When you're afraid you don't think, you react.

-spence

I'll buy most of this...

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, that fear was more than manipulated to get us into Iraq.

A little fear can be good as it brings caution. A lot of fear is bad as it clouds judgement. When you're afraid you don't think, you react.

For instance, a lot of fear of young Muslim men would lead someone like you to ignore the foundations of Liberty and strip someone of their civil rights because you are afraid.

That just doesn't seem right now does it?

-spence

Frustration and anger make a nice soup to

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

Frustration and anger make a nice soup to

You forgot REVENGE!

-spence

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by spence

As an aside, I'm not black or white on all profiling...but it's a slippery slope.

-spence

I'm not saying it's not a slippery slope. But common sense needs to be used at times. I'm not saying round up all Middle eastern dudes and put 'em in a camp somewhere. Thats extreme. But, we know who fits the profile of a likely terroist, so a little extra checking at the airports and other sensative places makes sense to me. We can't let Mohamad Abdula walk right through the check point, and pull my 90 year old grandmother aside for a long frisking. Common sense is all im asking!

I hope the ACLU aren't reading my posts

[stripersnipr]

As far as screening of young Muslim Men goes dont worry it happens regularly as it should. My youngest brother,twenty eight years old (of Italian Descent) who travels extensively and could easily pass as being of Arabic descent is resigned to the fact that he will be pulled out of line and subjected to extra screening every time without fail. He chooses to apply his basic common sense and understanding of the clear need rather than envoking the Declaration of Independence.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

We can't let Mohamad Abdula walk right through the check point, and pull my 90 year old grandmother aside for a long frisking. Common sense is all im asking!

I don't think that's common sense, you're basically saying that all Muslim men are guilty until proven innocent.

Now a combination of behavioral risk factors might mean something, but that's a different story.

-spence

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

As far as screening of young Muslim Men goes dont worry it happens regularly as it should. My youngest brother,twenty eight years old (of Italian Descent) who travels extensively and could easily pass as being of Arabic descent is resigned to the fact that he will be pulled out of line and subjected to extra screening every time without fail. He chooses to apply his basic common sense and understanding of the clear need rather than envoking the Declaration of Independence.

I think he understands he has nothing to hide and just sucks it up and doesnt go running for the ACLU to make a big stink. Deep down he might get pissed, but i'm sure he realizes its for the over all saftey of the airliners.

Heck i'm a 26 year old white guy and i've gotten pulled aside a few times. They even sent me through that machine that blows all that damn air on you! But i dont care, it takes all of a 2 minutes and its done. But maybe next time all call the ACLU and make a big fuss

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by spence

I don't think that's common sense, you're basically saying that all Muslim men are guilty until proven innocent.

Now a combination of behavioral risk factors might mean something, but that's a different story.

-spence

So you're willing to take the chance this day an age, and let them go through without any extra checking? We're talking about hardcore terroists here, these guys are trained to be very calm as they go about thier mission. So we might not be able to tell just by that.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skip N

So you're willing to take the chance this day an age, and let them go through without any extra checking? We're talking about hardcore terroists here, these guys are trained to be very calm as they go about thier mission. So we might not be able to tell just by that.

I'm saying that I'm not willing to sacrifice our freedom because I'm afraid...too many good Americans have died to protect it.

Besides, how do you know if someone is a Muslim?

-spence

[kevin d]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm saying that I'm not willing to sacrifice our freedom because I'm afraid...too many good Americans have died to protect it.

Besides, how do you know if someone is a Muslim?

-spence

The bombs sticking out of their clothing usually gives it away

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Basswipe - why is it propaganda? Are you saying it didn't happen? No need to show classlessness with the name calling. It sures seems like you have a lot of hate.

It could be propaganda...no?It could've happened but it also might not've.Name calling...as a vet I've earned THAT right considering that this individual has spewed forth nothing but anti-American(troops)crap since he became a member.

Hate.You say it SEEMS like I'm full of it.Some things are not what they seem Paul.

My only concern is the welfare of our boys in uniform and their families.Our boys are so easily forgotten in the heat of political bull%$%$%$%$...well except now,it being around election time and all.

[spence]

Originally Posted by basswipe

It could be propaganda...no?

I'd classify stuff like this as more reactionary than propaganda.

-spence