seals wtf...

[Flaptail]

Water quality, lack of substantial bait not just sand eels, seals and access closures for the mobile surfcaster. Big biat is a huge problem but while other areas, notably have had and do have a resurgence of big adult Menhaden could it not be the same issue keeping them from our sandy shores as what is keeping the bass away? Namely, seals. What would a herd of seals do to an acre of pogies about to enter Pleasant Bay? And does the deteriorating water quality in the bay have anything to do with keeping them out and Stage Harbor as well?

By mid July the gelatinous junk floating on the waters of PB and the water clarity overwhelm your senses. Lack of oxygen maybe? And that June rain and the effect it had on our embayments around the Cape?

Barnstable had more bait than I have seen in years this past spring and early summer but KarlF and I saw what might be the next battlefront on the seal issue. A large seal on the east bar in June in amongst the sand eels schools. Not a good sign.

[Back Beach]

Wasn't ready to concede that its the seals who are responsible for the decline. After the past two seasons, I can't find any other excuses other than the seals. First hand info from good sources indicates that there is no other isolate. There are fish offshore, but they don't hit the beach with any consistency. Glad I didn't waste time or money on the back side this season or last. Might need to change my name to "rock head" now, though.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

i think it is a combination of many things.the seals have wiped out the ground fish,so why would big bass venture close to the beach. you have a good amount of large bait in the NY,NJ area so the majority of large are not coming north.i think the inshore water quality has changed. whether it has to do with the amount of chorine run off or fertilzer something is changing the water

[Backbeach Jake]

Water Quality never dawned on me. Now that it has, I'm thinking outfall pipe in one way or the other. 1: dumping nutrients into the middle of Cape Cod Bay and attracting bait there. 2: dumping toxins and reducing bait. I'm leaning toward the nutrient side of the scale because I've not seen a lot of dead bait on shore. Saw Right Whales grubbing for large sandeels this past Easter Sunday within an honest stone's throw of the beach, now they're gone after a warm Summer. Sandeels ARE a mile or so off the beach tho, seen'em. The mung was a little longer and stringier than usual and came in force real fast. Who knows? I do know that I was mugged by seals twice this year and that they've learned to look for an easy meal when they see a rod and reel. Is a 1209 capable of throwing a .30 slug?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by l.i.fish.in.vt

i think it is a combination of many things.the seals have wiped out the ground fish,so why would big bass venture close to the beach. you have a good amount of large bait in the NY,NJ area so the majority of large are not coming north.i think the inshore water quality has changed. whether it has to do with the amount of chorine run off or fertilzer something is changing the water

Seals definately have an impact... but seals don't explain the widespread lack of groundfish where the seals don't even exist. I hear people tying the lack of fluke and winters to seals? We don't even friggin have a seal population here in long island sound and we still don't have flatfish to speak of. If humans weren't involved, the population of seals could be 10 times greater and there would be a thriving balanced ecosystem. The seals play a part in the current situation on the cape, but we caused it.

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Seals definately have an impact... but seals don't explain the widespread lack of groundfish where the seals don't even exist. I hear people tying the lack of fluke and winters to seals? We don't even friggin have a seal population here in long island sound and we still don't have flatfish to speak of. If humans weren't involved, the population of seals could be 10 times greater and there would be a thriving balanced ecosystem. The seals play a part in the current situation on the cape, but we caused it.

For years we would drift sandeels with egg sinkers over the bars at Bearses, Handkerchief and the other rips east and south of Monomoy. If you didn't catch a bass on the drift most often you would catch a fluke or another small flounder species known locally as Windowpane. Often a seal would come right up in the face of the rip with a flounder in his maw and many many many times they would rip the flounder or fluke you caught right off your hook as it came to or just under the surface.

Windowpane were so abundant while surfcasting Nauset and Monomoy as to be almost a nuiscence some nights. I don't know about Nauset as I don't fish there often enough anymore but in conversation with friends who frequent the place (KarlF any input here?) there just ain't anymore. Also there used to be a spring run of small Pollock along Monomoy and Nauset and you don't see them anymore.

But as I have written many times in my columm in OTW, a half mile off of Nauset with 300 feet of wire we could catch all the bass we wanted after tuna forays and the bait was there but no Mr. Piniped.

[Karl F]

Flounder, Fluke, Sand Dabs.. ..
Pleasant Bay. Nauset Harbor, Mill Pond.. all abundant, years ago with winter fluke.. fluke in the summer, could get fluke off the beach almost all summer too, hence that nuiscance thing Flap had but they was good eating.. Sand Dabs. and sand eels, in both Pleasant Bay, and out front off of Nauset..
the seals started showing.. some wintered over in both the Harbor, and Pleasant Bay.. yes man was invovled there too.. them pump rigs they brought in for clamming right around the same time.. wiped out a lot of them.. but the seals were more than happy to oblige in eating whatever came out of the hydraulics..
As the numbers of seals increased the flounder, fluke, sand dabs, and sand eels disappeared from the front beach, and the estuarys..
the sand eels were the last to go.. I remember even in the late 90's, 98-99.. you could go work the bars near the Chatham inlet at low tide and fill a bucket in short orde.. no more. Still got my CS rake a hangin in the shed.. (needs 2 tines relaced) in hope that I can someday use it again.
So..all the bait is just about wiped out, and smaller fish.. you would think the seals would move on.. no.. they just started targeting schoolies and snapper blue.. they have moved on to the larger ones now..

But, as far as the water.. I agree.. the crap from road runoff, and all the trophy mansions with the golf course type lawns, and huge septic systems right on the shore edge.. and the golf courses along the bay as well.. have to have some impact.. whatever happened to all the eel grass?.. and now chunks of the marsh itself, is dying...

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Flounder, Fluke, Sand Dabs.. ..
Pleasant Bay. Nauset Harbor, Mill Pond.. all abundant, years ago with winter fluke.. fluke in the summer, could get fluke off the beach almost all summer too, hence that nuiscance thing Flap had but they was good eating.. Sand Dabs. and sand eels, in both Pleasant Bay, and out front off of Nauset..
the seals started showing.. some wintered over in both the Harbor, and Pleasant Bay.. yes man was invovled there too.. them pump rigs they brought in for clamming right around the same time.. wiped out a lot of them.. but the seals were more than happy to oblige in eating whatever came out of the hydraulics..
As the numbers of seals increased the flounder, fluke, sand dabs, and sand eels disappeared from the front beach, and the estuarys..
the sand eels were the last to go.. I remember even in the late 90's, 98-99.. you could go work the bars near the Chatham inlet at low tide and fill a bucket in short orde.. no more. Still got my CS rake a hangin in the shed.. (needs 2 tines relaced) in hope that I can someday use it again.
So..all the bait is just about wiped out, and smaller fish.. you would think the seals would move on.. no.. they just started targeting schoolies and snapper blue.. they have moved on to the larger ones now..

But, as far as the water.. I agree.. the crap from road runoff, and all the trophy mansions with the golf course type lawns, and huge septic systems right on the shore edge.. and the golf courses along the bay as well.. have to have some impact.. whatever happened to all the eel grass?.. and now chunks of the marsh itself, is dying...

Or.... somethings afoot and we don`t know what it is Mrs. Jones....


I only started salt fishing in late 97 but an area I like has no seals to speak of and the sand dabs, sand lances, and fluke are not there as they were in 97, 98, 99, and 2000...... methinks increased populations, more Mr. Chemical lawn treatments, sewerage leachings, natural cycles, acid rain (a name for many poisons), climate changes, etc. etc. has its dramatic effects as well..... though I agree that seals are the fisheries bane..... For Whom The Bell Tolls.... is here in many forms and sadly so...

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

For years we would drift sandeels with egg sinkers over the bars at Bearses, Handkerchief and the other rips east and south of Monomoy. If you didn't catch a bass on the drift most often you would catch a fluke or another small flounder species known locally as Windowpane. Often a seal would come right up in the face of the rip with a flounder in his maw and many many many times they would rip the flounder or fluke you caught right off your hook as it came to or just under the surface.

Windowpane were so abundant while surfcasting Nauset and Monomoy as to be almost a nuiscence some nights. I don't know about Nauset as I don't fish there often enough anymore but in conversation with friends who frequent the place (KarlF any input here?) there just ain't anymore. Also there used to be a spring run of small Pollock along Monomoy and Nauset and you don't see them anymore.

But as I have written many times in my columm in OTW, a half mile off of Nauset with 300 feet of wire we could catch all the bass we wanted after tuna forays and the bait was there but no Mr. Piniped.

Look, I agree that the seals have an impact, especially locally the way you desecribe. But the flounder situation in particular is the same up and down the coast. Western LIS, outer banks, etc all saw the same trends where you could catch coolers full of flatfish and now they don't exist. All the environmental factors you stated also play a part. I am sure the fishing is going to be affected where the seals are, but I do not think the presence of seals can be identified as the main factor in the lack of flounder.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by zimmy

but I do not think the presence of seals can be identified as the main factor in the lack of flounder.

I bet they are the reason in Pleasant Bay, I have zero doubt about it.