Hearing on Race Point Beach Closures

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by fishonnelsons

Working on figuring out exactlty who are on the committee's Flap, and how one gets on those committee's as well. Fricking disgrace as to the Ptown rep on the ORV committe, found out today she has attended 1 meeting in about 5 years. But that says it, who knew?, and now that we know how does one go about changing it, but working on it.

As far as buying a permit next year or not folks, if we just say %^$# it, then the Seashoe will look at it, say the revenues don't support ORV access, and continue to shut it down. I can piss way $150 real fast, but I think spending it on the permit sends a message, and still does give us access. I sound like a broken record, but e-mails etc to all interested parties, attendance at meetings like last Sat., and support to MBBA and their legal fund will continue to keep the spotlight on this issue. Without voices, the access will truly go away, birds or no birds.

Fish On,

I understand your point of view. Seeing you are a business owner and this stuff impacts you and your local economy directly, there is no reason not to battle it. What's happened with many of us is that the $150 dollar permit isn't where it ends. Most people travel 2-3 hours to get out there and want some type of certainty upon arrival that they will be able to access the fishing grounds. I used to make a lot of one-two night trips out there, but won't anymore. Lots of people in my position too.People aren't planning vacations around the beach in the same numbers as they were a few years ago. Factor in the gas and other expenses you incur, and its more like 300-400 for a couple days of parking lot fishing and listening to everyone bitch. Not worth it by any means in my mind. I have the canal,gansett, and wesport all within 1 hour of my home if I want to fish. No hassles in those places,either.

You can find out who the committee people are easily.Google the CCNS advisory committee, and you can get the meeting minutes and names of all people involved. I did it yesterday. Can also get the operating budgets and all that stuff if you are interested from the same place.

[fishonnelsons]

Your points are all valid ones, the same ones I say to the Seashore and Chambers of Commerce - the people won't come, when they have other options available to them without the hassles. The concern becomes what happens when access at an area such as Race Pt becomes smaller and smaller and then access just disappears. Now everyone goes elsewhere (and granted my Tackle Shop sucks the big kahoona!), and the crowds start to go up in those limited spots. Then another species shows up at another one of those spots, and it starts all over again, and that spot becomes diminished. Or, the enviro's (just the crazed ones) start targeting additional areas - talk to the folks at Hatteras. Before you know it, overall access is almost nothing.

I guess that's why it's really good that the MBBA is looking at this issue with the larger East Coast organizations, looking at the bigger picture.

My put is to keep up the fight, any number of ways. If one wants to buy the sticker to show support, great, if one wants to donate the $150 to MBBA legal fund that's great too, go to meetings, write letters, e-mail, phone calls and so on.

P.S. - thanks for the google advice, I will do that!!

[Ed B]

Flaptail and FishonNelsons hit the nail on the head. The number one most important thing that has to be done is to stay involved and go to the meetings. That means you ...MBBA is setting up a legal fund and people absolutely should donate. But the key is that everyone has to participate in some fashion for this to work.

Some guys say "Ahhh the hell with it, I'll fish Rhode Island. Less hassle." You've got to be kidding me, the access in RI is ten times tougher than on the Cape. In RI you make secret deals with people, pay during a specified short time interval for a pass to park on a public street and park at other places wondering if your car will get towed. We lose parking every year and when there is a meeting at a town hall to voice concerns, nobody shows up except for the token few like DZ and now maybe Bob M from RISAA. And those few who show up have trouble just finding out when the meetings are in the first place.

You hear statistics like there are 1,000,000 fisherman who come to MA and 300,000 to RI. Meanwhile nobody shows up when they take away our access, that's sad. Staying home because you were "too busy", "had something to do", "painted plugs" or "went fishing" hoping that someone else would carry the ball is not good enough if you really care about your fishing.

Once the access is gone it's pretty much gone for good. Show Up at meetings, donate to MBBA, or participate like Fishon suggested, but do something. Together in numbers we can make a difference but we need the participation from all, and there's no excuse for us not to get it.

Ed

[nightprowler]

Originally Posted by Ed B

Flaptail and FishonNelsons hit the nail on the head. The number one most important thing that has to be done is to stay involved and go to the meetings. That means you ...MBBA is setting up a legal fund and people absolutely should donate. But the key is that everyone has to participate in some fashion for this to work.

Some guys say "Ahhh the hell with it, I'll fish Rhode Island. Less hassle." You've got to be kidding me, the access in RI is ten times tougher than on the Cape. In RI you make secret deals with people, pay during a specified short time interval for a pass to park on a public street and park at other places wondering if your car will get towed. We lose parking every year and when there is a meeting at a town hall to voice concerns, nobody shows up except for the token few like DZ and now maybe Bob M from RISAA. And those few who show up have trouble just finding out when the meetings are in the first place.

You hear statistics like there are 1,000,000 fisherman who come to MA and 300,000 to RI. Meanwhile nobody shows up when they take away our access, that's sad. Staying home because you were "too busy", "had something to do", "painted plugs" or "went fishing" hoping that someone else would carry the ball is not good enough if you really care about your fishing.

Once the access is gone it's pretty much gone for good. Show Up at meetings, donate to MBBA, or participate like Fishon suggested, but do something. Together in numbers we can make a difference but we need the participation from all, and there's no excuse for us not to get it.

Ed

[tattoobob]

Can someone post the email address, mailing addresses,& phone numbers, and the most important points to out line in a letters/email, lets make it easy to get to these people so we can let our presents known.

[Karl F]

Well.. as the former Chair of the Legal Fund Replenishment Committee for the MBBA, (this is not a new fund, been one there for years, and moneys have been spent out of it for years, for access, but not at the current level) I'd like to say Thanks to all those that are out there suggesting that folks donate to the fund. The "War Chest" that the club members have built up over the years, is being used to pay the legal tab of the enviro/access Law Firm hired to look into what we can do to keep the MA beaches open.
MBBA is also afiliated with UMS, and numbers (memberships) are key also, the more the better.

It only costs ten dollars for a new membership, so you might want to consider that, if you are thinking of contributing to the MBBA legal fund.
www.mbba.net, there is a form you can download, fill out, enclose that all important check, and mail it in. Membership is open to all, as are donations to the Legal Fund you don't have to join to donate, but please consider it.

BTW.. gonefishin and myself are in the process of building plugs for access.. we wil donate these plugs to the Legal Fund Replenishment committee, and at the clubs spring meet at Scussett beach there will be a table set up, a 10 dollar donation to the fund will get ya a plug.

[Maloney]

Plugs for a cause. Thanks ,again, Karl.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Ed B

the access in RI is ten times tougher than on the Cape. In RI you make secret deals with people Ed

Good point, can't deny that happens. Overall, though, there is a lot of public access in both Mass. and RI. The entire National Seashore has plenty of access in spite of what is being argued here. It may not be the "easy" access where you drive right up to the water and cast a line, but its all accessible legally if you are serious about it and want to walk a little. The tougher access keeps the crowds out, which can ruin the fishing at times, too.This is true just about anyplace, and to me is a plus in some ways. From purely a fishing point of view, the people who are really serious will always find a way(legal but challenging) to the water.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Good point, can't deny that happens. Overall, though, there is a lot of public access in both Mass. and RI. The entire National Seashore has plenty of access in spite of what is being argued here. It may not be the "easy" access where you drive right up to the water and cast a line, but its all accessible legally if you are serious about it and want to walk a little. The tougher access keeps the crowds out, which can ruin the fishing at times, too.This is true just about anyplace, and to me is a plus in some ways. From purely a fishing point of view, the people who are really serious will always find a way(legal but challenging) to the water.

Great point Mike. I bet most guys on this board (except Flap) have never fished the Clay Banks. A long walk from Head of the Meadow but you use to be guarenteed a 30 if you took the hike. I killed myself one than once dragging a fish back over a mile and a half.
Balliston was "hot" in the mid-90s for 20s and 30s. But if you walked a couple of miles you could find 40s and you would be all alone. Once dragged a 42 back took me the better part of an hour.
The problem has become most of the guys want to drive to the spot, get out cast and then drive to the next spot. I think that, because of the birds, those days are over.

Even in th early 90s, when this bird stuff just started, they would close the Back way before the Mission Bell. We walked a mile to the Bell more than once and "tonged" big fish. To old for that crap now but the point is there is still spot to fish even when the beach gets closed.

Now the friggin" seals are another story....

[Karl F]

http://www.provincetownbanner.com/ar...ews/12/14/2006

[BasicPatrick]

The NPS is not the big bad guy people seem to think. NPS is bound by the Endangered Species Act, The Migratory Bird Act, The MA Endangered Species Act, and the MA Wetlands Protection Act to name a few. Each of these laws had little opposition when fishing advocates were screaming for public support trying to get them adjusted.

Truth is MA has carried the Northeast Flyway's most amount of birds for over ten years. Over the same ten years, the number of nesting pairs has been above the "recovery goal" in the Piping Plover Recovery Plan. Bottom line is that the people of MA have done all they can while other States on the East coast have not. The Piping Plover Recovery Plan does not allow for "Regional Management" once the "Region" or the "Northeast Flyway" has reached "Recovery numbers" as is the case. To worsen the legal end, Endangered Species Act reform is being taken off the agenda in Congress due the the recent election and the political changes it has brought to DC.

The only place in the legal chain that governs the management of the NPS that DOES NOT REQUIRE a vote in DC is the actual Piping Plover Recovery Plan. This document is written by the Piping Plover Recovery Team that works out of the US Fish & Wildlife Office located in Hadley MA. Headed by Don Fillmnan, outgoing President of MBBA, a strategy has been launched here in MA to negotiate, pressure, and/or take legal action to change the Piping Plover Recovery Plan. The law firm hired is the same firm that has already won a law suit against NPS over the improper designation of Critical Wintering Habitat in the Cape Hatteras National Seashore and is considered to be the best of the best when it comes to challenging the Piping Plover Recovery Plan. This Strategy is being exercised both here in MA and in DC. I am personally involved in the work being done here and in DC and can assure you that both the Recreational Fishing Alliance and The United Mobile Sport Fishermen (UMS) are involved in this strategy.

Meeting attendance and letter/e-mail writing will help but it is not going to be the main way to keep the beaches open. The right people are already involved and the real work happens behind the scenes in a very professional atmosphere.

If you want to really make a difference, the real need is MONEY. We are talking about a strategy that will cost tens of thousands even if there is no law suit.

The Delegates of the United Mobile Sport Fishermen (UMS) have already recognized the far reaching importance of this struggle and donated $2000 just for starters. MSBA will be taking this subject up in the near future.

My challenge is this...We all say that S-B is a club. I agree. Well, then let's act like a club and throw a fundraiser to donate to the MBBA Legal Defense fund for the specific purpose of furthering the strategy that has a shot of working.

If you want tot do something further, call the Cape Cod Chamber of Commerce and tell them how you feel and that you want them involved in funding this action also.

For the record

Captain Patrick Paquette
Executive Director--United Mobile Sportfishermen
National Access Representative--Recreational Fishing Alliance