The Grapevine...

[Back Beach]

When I started fishing, it was my father, brother, and I camping in the back of a pickup truck at Nauset in the early 80's. After some coaching from a few regulars, we figured out how to put worms on a hook and throw them into a "hole" to catch stripers. As the addiction progressed, there were many fishless nights over the years due to lack of knowledge and just plain lack of fish. When I got my license and hit Ptown in the mid to late 80's, it seemed like an impenetrable barrier existed with regard to getting information. As I fished more and more, certain guys took note and began to help me out.

When I finally had some successes to report, guys opened up even more, but some were still weary about spilling everything. I found myself in their shoes later on when I fished long and hard with a few close comrades. We were very successful, but secretive. To this day it is still a trusted few guys for me, maybe about a dozen, who mostly fish in different locales, but we all share information freely about our successes and failures. Some of the guys I’ve known for 20 years, some much less, but all respect the need for a level of secrecy in our sport. I regularly get good info from the outer cape, north shore, and Rhody, but seldom act on it, if ever. I stick to what I’m going to do, regardless of the grape vine info. However, on some occasions, I do act, and it has resulted in some of my biggest catches, and biggest fish of my life. As a rule I don’t chase the info, because it usually results in getting there a day too late most of the time.
I still don't give up everything either, and sometimes lie about how/where/when if the person is on the bubble. I won't send anyone on a goose chase, but will creatively mislead sometimes.

Now tell me fellow s-bers, how do you decide when to share with some one, how much to share and how valuable is the grape vine to your fishing exploits? If you are new to the sport, but serious, how will you go about getting the inside edge? Also, how do you know when someone is trying to trade you manure for oats? Lets hear it on this deep, but seldom talked about subject.

[tattoobob]

I don't give much info out, I do tell a few close friends.
I have a bragging problem, and tend to say to much at times,

I don't chase reports of big fish or big catches, I stick to my game plan.

I try to fish 5 or six spots and learn them and fish them all year.

Trust no one, we are talking fisherman here, they all lie

[BassyiusMaximus]

This is a good question, that is for sure but I wonder if it should be split into the boat fishermen and the shore fishermen grapevine question if it matters, or does it really matter? I noticed on the "Lurker" thread, that I thought was pretty funny overall, that while it became a "Please introduce yourself"-thread, most read to learn however I think that very few specific spots/areas are really given up on this site or any for that matter, that is, no one gives directions or exact places to go and fish, remember, I said for the most part.

Someone mentioned on the "OTW" thread and how it is hard/challenging for a print-publication to come up with new information/fishing reports when year after year not much changes and the fish are in a way predictable as to where and when they will come around and where they will hang out. I began to notice this trend when OTW first came out in 96/97 and for the first 3 years I noticed that the same areas were written about that continues to this very day, which is good but again, they are only areas as one writer had mentioned regarding Cod and the B-Bouy/outside Boston Harbor, to say you caught your fish at the B-Bouy is like saying you caught it in the Atlantic Ocean, not much help. Maybe to make the question more specific if I am rambling, what "grapevine" are we talking about here, magazines, the internet, the tackle/bait shop guy/kid, the guy you bumped into in the parking lot or some friends either close or casual?

As I sit trying to frame my response, I can only think the grapevine would matter if one has a grapevine, that is a lot of grapes or a lot of vines to speak with about fishing. As I fish from a boat just about 100% of the time, and I only know one other guy with a boat, and not many more who fish at all, I know my secrets are safe, then again, all I learned has been from the spots OTW gave up to me 10 years ago and I'd go to the spots and try all their suggestions over and over again, never giving up and trying, trying and trying. I also took note of where other boats would be, the boats that looked like they knew what they were doing and remember their location so I could try them later. I know that the party boats gave me lots of places to try since they really know where the bottom fish are anyway, so from a boaters perspective while it took me some time, the well-remembered path to catching has been most enjoyable. I really give all my info to my family and as I have no kids, yet, my nephew will be the one to really know where the Honeycomb-Hideouts are that I know of.

[OLD GOAT]

if your from franklin you must know your way around.who taught you how to worm???what kind of hookdid you use???ever hang around long bar???how about the greatMUFF.

[chris L]

well Im a very young guy ( 20 + ) and stubborn . I try and locate my own fish and have never relied on grapevines cause fisherman lie to keep you away from "Their fish " . I do fish in many states and usually find my own fish without others help . I also find that reports and info are a day late and a dollar short . Maybe as I get older I will get lazier and rely on others to steer me to the fish . or maybe my personality will just keep me going the same way I have been the years I have been fishing .

to each his/her own

[capesams]

Originally Posted by OLD GOAT

if your from franklin you must know your way around.who taught you how to worm???what kind of hookdid you use???ever hang around long bar???how about the greatMUFF.

chatham sure grows grumpy guy's doesn't it

[OLD GOAT]

Originally Posted by capesams

chatham sure grows grumpy guy's doesn't it

s---- s---- is that you???? old goat

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by OLD GOAT

if your from franklin you must know your way around.who taught you how to worm???what kind of hookdid you use???ever hang around long bar???how about the greatMUFF.

Old Goat,

Yes, it was Muff who got us started.Not sure if he is still around though.Muff's strategy was to find the fish w/worms, and then plug with 5 1/4" rebels. Joe Marzini was another one who helped us out.Marz used to take the orange float off the worm rig and replace it with a 5" rebel. You might be a mentor of mine also. You in the paint business?

[In The Surf]

Originally Posted by OLD GOAT

if your from franklin you must know about the greatMUFF.

Not from Franklin but I did know of some great MUFF up there.

[Karl F]

if you attempted to fish worms, at Nauset, in the 60' 70's and 80's.. ya had to know Muff.. got a lot of folks straightened how as to how to catch with them, if you were lucky enough to run into him.
friend of mine looked him up last winter, meybe winter before last... he's living in the woods in Rhody, by himself, and seemed to be doing OK was the report I got from my friend.. getting on in years for certain.. but still

[bart]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

If you are new to the sport, but serious, how will you go about getting the inside edge? Also, how do you know when someone is trying to trade you manure for oats? Lets hear it on this deep, but seldom talked about subject.

i break into your truck when you're not around and copy down info from your eldridge book

[tynan19]

Originally Posted by bart

i break into your truck when you're not around and copy down info from your eldridge book

Wait till Sun, when we can ask for the keys.

[ThrowingTimber]

I believe nothing I hear, and half of what I see. If I get into them pretty good, i'll pass the word to someone who's put me on fish. or if I spot a lot of bait etc, I'll throw a heads up to a few folks I know are in the general vacinity. Concentrating on flying solo this year, scotty's back is done for.. like for life... Flew solo quite a bit last year, its not bad, until the jaws theme starts playing in your head...

[bart]

Originally Posted by tynan19

Wait till Sun, when we can ask for the keys.

unfortunately i won't be making the Pats game this year. my girl is taking me away to the white mtns for the weekend.

you have my permission to go into his truck tho...

[RIJIMMY]

i think a grapevine helps you learn and improve from your failures. Its not just about where the fish are, its why the fish where there. You can apply the knowledge to different tides,winds etc.
I share some info with folks from this site but it is limited since I do not have much to share. There are many times I bust my arse and then see guys from this site killing them and I know they fsih similar areas as I. I wish I knew where they were getting the, not because I'd run down there, but beacuse I could figure out what I was doing wrong. You can do a lot of work on your own, but learning from others is always the best way to improve.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Now tell me fellow s-bers, how do you decide when to share with some one, how much to share and how valuable is the grape vine to your fishing exploits? When to share has a lot to do with who it is and where do they fish normally, if they have the right equipment, if they will just blab the info to others etc. Same with how much. The degree of how valuable the grapevine is, has to be compared to my past years successes and knowledge, the more experience at an area/the less I would need grapevine info. Unless the info is fresher than a fresh sandeel, then it may be too late and the fish may have moved on. If you are new to the sport, but serious, how will you go about getting the inside edge?It was tackle shops and reading books, magazines maybe a seminar or 2 when I started out, now-a-days newcomers get on the information highway and a few clicks later they have instant gratification and no need to have anyone take them by the hand, half the time they don't even have to ask if they do enough searching. But I am still learning and will never stop, so maybe that is why I am here too. Also, how do you know when someone is trying to trade you manure for oats?I don't so I just have to take their word for it, so if I get manure, then they get crossed off the list. Lets hear it on this deep, but seldom talked about subject.

why

[Rockport24]

[QUOTE=If you are new to the sport, but serious, how will you go about getting the inside edge? Also, how do you know when someone is trying to trade you manure for oats? Lets hear it on this deep, but seldom talked about subject.[/QUOTE]

I'm still a newbie since I've only been at the surfcasting game for two seasons now and I'll tell ya it's not easy getting info especially from the sharpie crowd. I don't blame them though, I wouldn't give good info to somebody I didn't know either. My plan to get the inside edge is really just to spend a ton of time on the water in a few select areas and learn as much as I can on my own, while at the same time keeping my eyes and ears open and listening to reports and such and reading between the lines the best I can. A lot of the time there are subtle hints dropped that only somebody who has put in the time can understand. I guess I can't always tell when somebody is telling the truth or not, but if somebody is talking about a spot I've spend a lot of time at, I can pretty much tell if it's truth or fiction just based on my knowledge of the place.
I also want to add that I hope as I spend more time on the water and get to know more anglers in the areas I fish that I will gain some trust and maybe get some info dropped to me by the sharpies.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Rockport24

I'm still a newbie since I've only been at the surfcasting game for two seasons now and I'll tell ya it's not easy getting info especially from the sharpie crowd. I don't blame them though, I wouldn't give good info to somebody I didn't know either. My plan to get the inside edge is really just to spend a ton of time on the water in a few select areas and learn as much as I can on my own, while at the same time keeping my eyes and ears open and listening to reports and such and reading between the lines the best I can. A lot of the time there are subtle hints dropped that only somebody who has put in the time can understand. I guess I can't always tell when somebody is telling the truth or not, but if somebody is talking about a spot I've spend a lot of time at, I can pretty much tell if it's truth or fiction just based on my knowledge of the place.
I also want to add that I hope as I spend more time on the water and get to know more anglers in the areas I fish that I will gain some trust and maybe get some info dropped to me by the sharpies.

If guys see you fishing hard and doing what they see as some of the right things they may steer you in the right direction.
It sometimes happens at the coffee shop or in the am at the truck and they say "have a good night?"
You say "not bad, I picked up a few fish on blanks"
A little bit of BS and you might get a little hint, or maybe ya gave one.
Listen more than you talk.
There is no instruction book, if ya want lessons hire a surf guide.

[RIROCKHOUND]

I trust the following people:
Me
Myself
and I




Actually thats not true... I have a pretty tight circle with Easy E, Tall Joe, Old Paul, and elusive John... even yuppie Spence on occasion..

It's like the circle of trust in meet the Fockers; dont get outside the circle of trust!

[Nebe]

I keep my circle small .. those in the circle get everything.

[Slingah]

I stopped chasing reports written or said....I get too worked up and often dissapointed...an invite is a different animal.....if it pans out...all the better...
It can get tricky on giving out info..my rule is if I catch at a spot of my own or am fishing alone Ill tell anyone in the grapevine (if I think they deserve it )....if someone invites me out and we land fish...mums the word..or no specifics....
I will not send anyone on a goose chase either...but can get creative as well

[vanstaal]

I keep my circle small I do tell a few close friends.
I try to fish 5 or six spots and learn them and fish them all year.
ya see the same bunch of guys all the time doing the same as u
thats the small circle

[Krispy]

Chasing reports rarely pans out for me, its usually to late or dont have enough specifics to make it happen. So I dont anymore.
I do share info freely (90%) with about half a dozen guys, and trust that they know how to keep it to themselves.
If find the best info usually comes around this time of year, about what happened where over the past season. Storing that info and following up on it the next season is the important part.
Ive found the best info is spots and when to fish them. Some guy fished spot X in July and took big bass for 3 weeks there, thats what I follow up on.
One caveat is, if one of my buds is knocking fish consistently, I will check out that new spot. Otherwise I stick to 5-6 places that I circulate through.

[STREETFIGHT]

very tight circle- 2 guys that get everything the other 1 gets almost everything. otherwise i dont say anything to anyone unless its one of the small spots i fish & a guy stumbles on to it. if i need to keep him from spoiling my night ill tell him enough to keep him from killing the spot.

[Backbeach Jake]

It's all right there if you're a good listener with a good memory. Some times wanting "the floor" can cost you big. Setting your ears on fishtalk everywhere you may be is a good skill. Go to a good tackle shop wander around and shop and listen. Ask questions when you have some money in one hand and some supplies in the other...and then fish, fish, fish.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Krispy

Chasing reports rarely pans out for me, its usually to late or dont have enough specifics to make it happen. So I dont anymore.
I do share info freely (90%) with about half a dozen guys, and trust that they know how to keep it to themselves.
If find the best info usually comes around this time of year, about what happened where over the past season. Storing that info and following up on it the next season is the important part.
Ive found the best info is spots and when to fish them. Some guy fished spot X in July and took big bass for 3 weeks there, thats what I follow up on.
One caveat is, if one of my buds is knocking fish consistently, I will check out that new spot. Otherwise I stick to 5-6 places that I circulate through.

good points Krispy.

[Back Beach]

You guys all kind of surmised what I was getting at. There is no free lunch. Chasing reports, regardless of their authenticity and accuracy, usually results in disappointment or the “you should have been here yesterday” outcome. With the exception of Bart, I like to help guys out if it’s practical.

[capecodder]

I owe a huge debt to a few guys from Jersey/Philadelphia (maybe some on this board) who pointed me in the right direction one early June morning at Race Point in 99.

I was there with a buddy for our first ever surf casting attempt. I had read Daignault's books and thought I was ready, my buddy flew in from CA to PTown and we headed out to the Race.

It was a moon tide in early June and when we hit our spot in the early morning, we found 4 guys already there and on fish. I would guess they were not happy to see us as we had not a clue. We showed up in bathing suits and fished barefoot -- the water was COLD. We were however respectful and while we were ill-equipped, we didn't screw up their action.

We saw they were fishing sand eels on hi-lo rigs and while we didn't have any hi-lo rigs, I did tie a rudimentary fishfinder rig and we had sand eels. I put away the "finnish swimmers" described by FD as it would not have worked with the group already there.

These guys showed us patiently, and with a lot of laughs, how to cast to the rip and not tangle, and in a few breaks how to tie a hi-lo rig. We each caught a keeper that morning (over 36") and were thrilled. We managed to work through the ripping current by walking in turn and not tangling.

That afternoon, I tied a dozen hi-lo rigs, bought sinkers and hooks, and prepped for the morning. We arrived at the same time and the same group of guys were there. Sand eels were all over the beach, even the gulls were full. We all immediately got in to fish, all 32" and larger. By the time the tide pushed us back, My buddy and I had 6 keepers each up to 42" and numerous others. The group had done as well or better. It was the single best day of fishing I have ever had.

Those guys taught me more in those two outings than all the books, internet sites, etc. have together and I am forever greatful. As a result, I try to help others to the extent I can when the situation arises if they show a desire to learn, as we did. To me this only really applies when I'm fishing as it needs to be hands on and you need to see how someone approaches it. Not one for talking in the tackle shop etc.

As for all the great info here, I use it to help me with my fishing which, due to limited time from family, is usually confined to a few spots. I incorporate ideas, techniques and apply it. Not one for chasing spots, although if the opportunity to fish a particular location arises, I'll try to remember what I've heard to get started.

Good topic.