The Trouble with Needlefish - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

cow tamer · 01-31-2007, 07:13 PM

A plugs action is the key, yet a needlefish has little.
Big eyes on a plug are the key, yet most needlefish have none.
Vibration is important, yet a needlefish doesn't.
Color is important, yet needlefish colors vary.
Scent enhances a plug, but a needlefish doesn't smell.
Yet needlefish catch fish and big ones to boot.
Needlefish are a plug of adversity.

luds · 01-31-2007, 07:18 PM

whoah

it's ok. spring will be here before you know it. i thought i was obsessing.

ChiefLinesider · 01-31-2007, 07:51 PM

Needlefish are easy prey...?

Just some words to calm the mind.

tattoobob · 01-31-2007, 08:21 PM

I would take a step back,
Think for a minute,
Then go get a Box,
put all your needlefish in it
and mail them to me.

Slipknot · 01-31-2007, 08:39 PM

http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripert...ad.php?t=15841

Karl F · 01-31-2007, 08:45 PM

Great Link Slip..
That might need an update.. that was before Salty gave us Tourqoise Fire.. that is a MUST have for any needle junkie.
Trust me.

Bob.. that is the best Ho attempt yet

needles.. what is it that Tagger says?.. a stick, that catches fish.. gotta love it.

NIB · 01-31-2007, 08:57 PM

Out in a boat one day watched a bass for around 5 mins. try to eat a clear plastic salad spoon.
I think it was the presentation..

cow tamer · 02-01-2007, 07:09 AM

A needlefish demonstrates that when you think you've got fish (fishing) figured out, think again. The salad spoon example says it all.

Karl F · 02-01-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIB

Out in a boat one day watched a bass for around 5 mins. try to eat a clear plastic salad spoon.
I think it was the presentation..

They like pickle slices better.. ask Flap

DZ · 02-01-2007, 08:37 AM

Cowtamer - try not to over analyze needlefish.

Here's a story for you: Quite a few years back a guy published a story in The Fisherman magazine (New England Edition) about his homemade needlefish made out of "ball point pen" bodies. Some of you old timers may remember. He would take the ink cartridge out, make a hole in the body for a hook hanger thru-wire it then put on hooks and he was done. He touted it as a light tackle needlefish. Well, other than the photos in the story I never saw anyone using a "ball point needlefish" but there was no doubt in my mind that they would probably fool a striper from time to time.
There are times when stripers are highly selective and others when you can catch them with a strip of tee-shirt (did that once). Don't give them too much credit ... but don't sell them short.

DZ

NIB · 02-01-2007, 09:12 AM

I have caught em on a plain jighead, no paint no dressing..
There's a guy at the ditch who's rendition of a eelskin in a plastic
garbage bag..
He does very well.
I have also seen em turn their noses at my live bait presentations..
What DZ said is right on..

GattaFish · 02-01-2007, 09:36 AM

There is no question when fish are hungry they will eat just about anything......

But when they are not hungry they are VERY picky and can only be enticed with vibration, presentation and color.

Bigcat · 02-01-2007, 11:12 AM

French fries are killer

Slipknot · 02-01-2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigcat

French fries are killer

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

NIB, I wonder where ya saw that bare jig catching striper thing first

It was all about the distance, reach bottom and hold, and provide a hook. dressings were not necessary at that time.
your live bait was ignored because you didn't wash your hands after spagetti dinner the night before

LeCounts1099 · 02-01-2007, 11:25 AM

The "problem" with Needlefish is that to some extent, they are a sharps' plug. Because there's no "no- brainer" action to it, as there is with say a Storm Shad or YoZuri minnow plug, the average caster generally finds it a non- productive choice. This is why it seems the majority of everyday-casters are in love w/ the Storms... & almost no sharps' throw them (Ultimate Jigheads & bodies anyone?)

Because it "does nothing," it is paramount and imperative for the Caster to have the ability to "feel" the Needle through the water-- under ANY & all water/ conditions-- on the retrieve. To some extent "become one" with that plug through line/ rod/ reel! For a caster lacking this ability, the Needle will not work ("present") properly... & just as importantly any bumps & takes (more subtle than with most plugs on the whole) will not be felt or successfully set upon. Takes lots of exp. to develop this "feel"... under all conditions, & mostly at night! And: it's easier to get this touch in areas featuring "sameness" of water generally-- say like the great Back-beach, its' corners excepted. But in locales featuring very variable water/ conditions/ currents/ depths like Rhody, Block & Montauk to name a few, you must be quite a good student to know how to successfully "work" Needles through alll of this varied water...

One attraction to the Surf plug-casting devotee of this art, is certainly that there is a heavily intellectual element to this form of fishing: SO many decisions that have to be made correctly, depending upon location & conditions present on that particular outing. Not to mention the Winter bench prep. necessary to be ready for all of the different situations in- season. Fact is, there are very many (good) brands of Needles out there... and almost all have a semi- unique niche/ proper use. S.S., Habs, BM, Gibbs, Lex, Saltys & others/ customs are all must- haves!-- but really most need to be used in their "best"/ proper conditions... & size! (& color? Debate there rages!)... WHEN to throw the S.S. stubby?-- vs. the Habs 2 oz.?-- vs. the Habs "N- n- Gale"?... vs. the Gibbs large?... vs. the Lex 3.5 oz. "Montauk"?... vs. the 2 or 3 oz. BM?... etc.

DZ compiled the best concise summary of the different Needle brands, & their chief differences/ best uses, etc., that I've seen (searchable here?). But, really in the year 2007, this is now enough material for a full book! (And lucky anglers we are, to have this many quality choices! Just ask the '80s Block guys that had to meet the Jumbos head- on with non-through wired plugs featuring Mustad 3/0's... & bodies that were brittle in comparison to today's bullet- proof versions!) DZ?-- a possible "Modern Needles" companion piece to "Snowstorm Blitz?"

You'd better make sound "game- night" decisions about which Needle to throw, & why... & have them all handy, & ready/ featuring sticky- sharp & sound hooks!... IF Needles will be a stand- out & consistent plug (& produce Large) for you!

fcap60 · 02-01-2007, 01:30 PM

Dennis:

I respectfully disagree with you. I AM NOT AN OLD TIMER.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZ

Cowtamer - try not to over analyze needlefish.

Here's a story for you: Quite a few years back a guy published a story in The Fisherman magazine (New England Edition) about his homemade needlefish made out of "ball point pen" bodies. Some of you old timers may remember. He would take the ink cartridge out, make a hole in the body for a hook hanger thru-wire it then put on hooks and he was done. He touted it as a light tackle needlefish. Well, other than the photos in the story I never saw anyone using a "ball point needlefish" but there was no doubt in my mind that they would probably fool a striper from time to time.
There are times when stripers are highly selective and others when you can catch them with a strip of tee-shirt (did that once). Don't give them too much credit ... but don't sell them short.

DZ

DZ · 02-01-2007, 03:43 PM

Nicely put Lecounts. Thanks for the kind comments. I may write about modern needlefish some time in the future but with so many new versions coming out it would be tough to include them all. I recently heard that another version of a "Wad" needlefish stands to make its appearance in March courtesy of Al Gag. Lots of needles and not enough room in my one row surf bag to carry them.

Frank Capone,
I guess you remember that article? maybe you wrote it?

DZ

dredey · 02-01-2007, 03:49 PM

how can i read this article written by frank capone?

since i really am not an old timer i am wondering if someone can post it.

if frank writes like he cooks it must be a darn good article...

fcap60 · 02-01-2007, 03:58 PM

Dennis:

You are a true gentlemen.

I do remember the article, but I didn't write it....although I have thought about using pen cartriges for years.

I'm glad someone else put it in print.

chris L · 02-01-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIB

Out in a boat one day watched a bass for around 5 mins. try to eat a clear plastic salad spoon.
I think it was the presentation..

it was the left over dressing on the spoon

Tagger · 02-01-2007, 04:53 PM

I've caught large on needles when there was no fish to be had ... The person who said "Easy Prey" nailed it ... something about food crawling past in front of your nose ... I very confident in needles ... Thing is trying to get someone to fish ,,basicly a stick ,, that slow .,
Pateince is a virtue ...

Slingah · 02-01-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tagger

I've caught large on needles when there was no fish to be had ... The person who said "Easy Prey" nailed it ... something about food crawling past in front of your nose ... I very confident in needles ... Thing is trying to get someone to fish ,,basicly a stick ,, that slow .,
Pateince is a virtue ...

I got a schooling on needles the past couple seasons from Tagger....needles = big fish.....he changed my way thinking....I thought they were just for the sand

BigFish · 02-01-2007, 05:06 PM

Needlefish....not just for sand anymore!

Slingah · 02-01-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Needlefish....not just for sand anymore!

ur a C.I.A.

Tagger · 02-01-2007, 05:24 PM

C I A

Slingah · 02-01-2007, 05:26 PM

I knew yu'd like that eddie
sorry for the hijack.....resume buisness.....

cow tamer · 02-01-2007, 06:56 PM

I guess the point of my thread has been somewhat misunderstood by a few and for that I apologize. The title was put together with pun intended. I was not making a case against the needlefish but was using the needlefish to demonstrate that plug action, color, scent, eyes, etc. may not be as important as purported to be.

Slipknot · 02-01-2007, 07:03 PM

I got your point cowtamer and I agree that it is amazing how widely varied the needlefish plug can be used ans fished. It's a very versitle plug in the hands of a skilled fisher.
They work great at night imitating snapper blues which stripers love to eat, along with many other fish. I love fishing them and like making them and catching on them. My best needles that I make that I seem to have the best luck with are medium to small size, that slow sink very level. The ones weighted to sit at an angle seem like they need to be reeled faster or worked in ruffer waters. Needles are great, I would never leave home without one

tattoobob · 02-01-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeCounts1099

The "problem" with Needlefish is that to some extent, they are a sharps' plug. Because there's no "no- brainer" action to it, as there is with say a Storm Shad or YoZuri minnow plug, the average caster generally finds it a non- productive choice. This is why it seems the majority of everyday-casters are in love w/ the Storms... & almost no sharps' throw them (Ultimate Jigheads & bodies anyone?)

Steve great write up, I have said for years that storm shads were Googan lures, this first paragraph says it all

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl F

Bob.. that is the best Ho attempt yet

Karl never hurts to try

I am a Needlefish junkie

DZ · 02-02-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cow tamer

I guess the point of my thread has been somewhat misunderstood by a few and for that I apologize. The title was put together with pun intended. I was not making a case against the needlefish but was using the needlefish to demonstrate that plug action, color, scent, eyes, etc. may not be as important as purported to be.

Cowtamer,
Maybe this will help: You're halfway to success if you can get past the fact that a needlefish plug doesn't need to "wiggle" to be effective. Whenever someone says that a needlefish doesn't have any action I tell them that a needlefish might appear to be like a "stick with hooks" in the water but it's "STILL ACTION". Sliding through the surface film without a noticible wiggle IS indeed action. Sometimes that is what triggers Roccus to strike.
The first time I ever used a Needlefish plug (Boone) I took two casts with it, put it away, and it never saw the water again for a few seasons. Why? Because I thought it needed more "animated" ACTION. Many others still think the same way I did back then. I eventually "Saw the Light". Good luck.

DZ