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| The Scuppers This is a new forum for the not necessarily fishing related topics... |
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03-10-2007, 09:33 AM
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#1
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Calling Jon The Fisherman
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Sack Of Mass
Posts: 2,357
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Ok How About OVERrated guitarists?
Anyone you think gets too much credit?
I know this will raise an argument  but I think Jimmy Page is a little overrated... don't get me wrong, the guy can really write but he's sloppy as hell... |
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03-10-2007, 10:18 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 946
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Eric Clapton comes to mind.
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Fly & Light Tackle Fishing
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03-10-2007, 10:27 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat
Eric Clapton comes to mind.
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Page too.. genious,, but.. he performed sloppy several times, as stated. Twas the era tho.. lot of them performed under the influence, and it shows, when ya watch the old films. |
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03-10-2007, 10:39 AM
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#4
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Uncle Remus
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lakeville Ma.
Posts: 14,773
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Joan Jett and Bassmaster  and most of the guitarist's that hide behind the volume knob. Hard to say as I really don't listen to guys that are not good or appeal to my taste's. I figure if I can figure out what they are doing then they must not be too good  |
"A beach is a place where a man can feel he's the only soul in the world that's real"
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03-10-2007, 11:00 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plymouth, Ma
Posts: 1,405
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Clapton again. The older I get the less I care for the style.
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03-10-2007, 11:09 AM
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#6
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Calling Jon The Fisherman
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Sack Of Mass
Posts: 2,357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorM
Hard to say as I really don't listen to guys that are not good.
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I hear you guys on Clapton too, another guy who can really write but for him it's not sloppiness it's just that he's just adequate, not impressive. |
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03-10-2007, 02:49 PM
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#7
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,189
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Slash and Kurt Cobain (I Know I mentioned this before) come to mind.
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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03-10-2007, 03:12 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Shore
Posts: 1,701
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I'd have to say my brother in law ... he's a great guitarist and all, but no Jimmy Hendrix ...  ... sorry Bob, just kidding around ...  |
"It was the blackest night! There was no moon in sight! (You know the stars ain't shinnin cause the sky's too tight) "
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03-10-2007, 03:34 PM
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#9
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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You Clapton bashers are either A) Not a fan or B) You have never seen him play live! Sloppy......I don't think so! 
Jimmy Page when he was not as polluted with drugs and burned out say....pre-1973.......was probably the best guitar player ever in my opinion!
To say these 2 are over rated???? Absurd!
Lets start the over rated list with someone whose overall body of work is narrow and "what has he done lately"!! Mr Edward Van Halen! |
Almost time to get our fish on!!! 
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03-10-2007, 04:24 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Coventry, RI
Posts: 579
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 You stole my thunder BF!! Saw Clapton on the From the Cradle tour in Worcester and the whole show was flawless. Both Clapton & Page were wacked just about all the time in the early days and they still could crank it out even when they didn't know where the fluck they were. Over rated, George Harrison comes to mind. Great musician, song writer. poet and humanitarian but just about an adequete rythmn guitarist never mind a lead. |
Catch'em up,
ThomCat
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03-10-2007, 05:10 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: On my boat
Posts: 9,698
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I've got to disagree on George Harrison being over rated!
The guy was all about tones and not about blistering speed like Eddie Van Halen, who in my opinion, is one of the most ever rated ever!
Carlos Santana is one guy who could do more with 1 single note than Van Halen did with 100 that he would play in 1 bar ! |
LETS GO BRANDON
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03-10-2007, 06:20 PM
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#12
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Uncle Remus
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lakeville Ma.
Posts: 14,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFish
You Clapton bashers are either A) Not a fan or B) You have never seen him play live! Sloppy......I don't think so! |
I knew that was coming  Way too many variables to judge who is good and who sucks, although there are some really sucky players out there that make a lot of money. You like what you like. I really enjoy seeing the different tastes people have and have even checked out a few I never gave a shot to. I just like music and enjoy topics like this and of course the controversy involved  |
"A beach is a place where a man can feel he's the only soul in the world that's real"
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03-10-2007, 06:59 PM
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#13
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marshfield, MA
Posts: 6,267
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Clapton S*CKS!!!!!!
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03-10-2007, 07:02 PM
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#14
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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No plugs for you Slingah!! 
Raider Ron.....I agree!!
Thomcat.....I am a huge Harrison fan and Raider Ron hit it right on the head....he was all about quality!! Not in the top 100 but definitely not over rated! |
Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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03-10-2007, 07:05 PM
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#15
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marshfield, MA
Posts: 6,267
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just kiddin' 
it's all what chu like... |
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03-10-2007, 07:07 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 373
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Clapton!!!!,
Blasphemy!
Just one example.....
Search for "clapton white room" on youtube. There is one on there from Birmingham NEC from 1986. The solo that starts at 4:05 in that song is one of the most spectacular things I have ever seen. He isn't just running his fingers up and down the neck of that guitar, that kind of stuff comes from deep within. I've had that vhs tape for 20 years (and now dvd) and could never get tired of watching it. That was during the Phil collins years and he did have some piped in backup vocals but it never detracted from his playing. I went to that line up in Providence in 1987 (and every show in the boston area since) and have never walked away less than amazed.
My .02.
As for overrated, I cant think of a guitarrist, but I will say that anything the record co's are putting out now as mainstream top 40 is pure crap! I don't actully listen much but just turing on the radio to look for something reveals a lot.
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03-10-2007, 07:23 PM
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#17
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Afterhours Custom Plugs
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: R.I.
Posts: 8,611
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..i guess to each his own, imo clapton is top 5...... easy.
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03-10-2007, 07:28 PM
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#18
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Scuttlebutt
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Westport,MA
Posts: 2,427
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Neil Young is overrated if judge soley by chops...there's a million unknowns in LA alone who could blaze circles around Neil Technically.
But where it counts, conceptually and in his ability to communicate through his instrument, he's hardly limited at all, a B+ talent at worse who every once in a while hits an A+ stretch.
As Miles Davis said, the difference between a fair musician and a good musician is a good musician is a good musician can play anything he thinks. The difference between a good musician and a Great musician is what he thinks.
I'd call Neil Young a Fair musician who thinks like a great one. Or maybe, along with Ray Davies and a handful of others, the Best Bad Guitarist out there.
In the end, it's about communication and ideas, not pure musicianship, otherwise artists like Springsteen, REM, CCR, the Beatles, The Velvets and many others would never have attracted the broad fan bases that they have.
It's also why guys like Malmsteen and Joe Satriana and Eddie Van Halen will never be more than minor footnotes in rock and roll history. Great Talent, Pathetic Ideas.
I think the traditional 'guitar heroes' get too much bad press.
Steve Vai - a bad guitarist? Hardly! He's an incredible player with a varied and interesting career. He's played with everyone from Pil (with John Lydon) to Frank Zappa, to Nelly Furtado and David Lee Roth. I think people love supporting the underdog, which is why these guys get so muck. Some of Vai's music does not appeal to me, but if I said he couldn't play I'd be lying.
Tom Morello - His playing has to be put in context. When he did all those experimental solos at the beginning of the 90s, fret-widdling had been done to death. Morello pushed the boundaries on where a guitar solo could go. He is the guitar equivalent of a human beatbox. Clever stuff.
Neil Young - different category. Neil is an expressive player. I've heard him play solos that only use 2 notes - they fit the song perfectly. He doesn't use the guitar as a show-piece. It's a tool for song-writing.
Eddie Van Halen - Of course he played arena rock/hair metal! It was the 80s! Eddie Van Halen was a pioneer in a new form of guitar which has always been unfairly dismissed as 'irrelavent'. Is it possible that music journalists have convinced us that technical ability is a bad thing?
Which brings me to the point of this discussion...
The mid 90s and beyond, brought us some of the worst guitarists the world has ever seen as a backlash against 'fret widdlers'. Most Over-rated guitarist? That's easy -
Noel Gallagher (Oasis) - This guy is an absolute farce on guitar. He wires his pedals in the wrong way round on the first album. Not because it's 'inventive', because he's incompetent. Quote from Gallagher 'Scales are for f#&^ing fish!'. Noel only uses one scale (pentatonic), which goes backwards and forwards slowly on every song. Atrocious. He has no sense of feel, no music theory and no technical ability beyond 'bad busking'. It's not even 'punk'. He's redundant in every sense.
Oasis are one of the most successful bands in the UK. Media hype. You can convince people to buy anything these days.
just my 2 cents  |
Wasajigifying -[ was - a - jig-i-fy-ing] - the concept of not knowing what the hell your saying.
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03-10-2007, 07:30 PM
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#19
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BigFish Bait Co.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
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Katie ....you are musically wise beyond your years!
Malmsteen......what a joke!!! |
Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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03-10-2007, 07:36 PM
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#20
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Scuttlebutt
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Westport,MA
Posts: 2,427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFish
Katie ....you are musically wise beyond your years!
Malmsteen......what a joke!!! |
haha thanks, my fingers hurt after typing all that  |
Wasajigifying -[ was - a - jig-i-fy-ing] - the concept of not knowing what the hell your saying.
My Photography Page!
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03-10-2007, 07:37 PM
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#21
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marshfield, MA
Posts: 6,267
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katie...you wrote that??? brilliant ....
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03-10-2007, 07:45 PM
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#22
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Scuttlebutt
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Westport,MA
Posts: 2,427
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well i had to get the subject off clapton, cause he's kinda underrated for me, although back when he was just coming out you could consider him overrated with all the media and whatnot, but not that he's not all out there like he was, i'd consider him right in between under and overrated.
if that makes any sense
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Wasajigifying -[ was - a - jig-i-fy-ing] - the concept of not knowing what the hell your saying.
My Photography Page!
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03-10-2007, 08:25 PM
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#23
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sick of bluefish
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
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I really try to stay away from these threads, music is too sensitive a subject for me.
SO I'll just hit one point.....Eric Clapton overrated? And thos ethat defended him. Lame responses.
If you think EC is overrated, you need to listen to John Mayall's bluesbreakers, post Yardbirds. pre-Cream Clapton. YOu will hear some of the BEST blues rock guitar ever, and he was lioke 18yrs old. He wrote the book for most of the rock guitar playing for the last 30yrs. Cream was one of the bet rock bands ever and Clapton's playing was fantastic. He, like most musicians has mellowed with age and he played some pretty lame opop crap too. But the man set the stage for rock guitar and its place in music, much like Elivs bridged the blues with black vocalists, EC bridged the playing of BB KIng, Buddy Guy, Otis Rush, etc and brought it to the mainstream.
OK, Im outta here,,,
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making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all 
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03-10-2007, 08:27 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Here and There Seasonally
Posts: 5,985
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Katie, that was a brilliant piece of writing! Nice work! A+++!
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He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.
Thomas Paine
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03-10-2007, 08:29 PM
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#25
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sick of bluefish
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
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making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
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03-11-2007, 12:25 AM
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#26
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here fishy fishy
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: westport,ma.
Posts: 3,111
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you guys that are dissen clapton and page obviously need an education. I just can't belive you could say something like that when there are so many over rated flash in the pan one hit wonders out there.
Last edited by redcrbbr; 03-11-2007 at 12:31 AM..
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redcrbbr
of all the things i've lost...i miss my mind the most!!
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03-11-2007, 12:40 AM
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#27
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here fishy fishy
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: westport,ma.
Posts: 3,111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canalman
Anyone you think gets too much credit?
I know this will raise an argument but I think Jimmy Page is a little overrated... don't get me wrong, the guy can really write but he's sloppy as hell... |
This is from someone who thought Billy Squire was the band that played "nobodys fault but mine" and lost a bet for coffee at Cumby's one night a few years ago.  |
redcrbbr
of all the things i've lost...i miss my mind the most!!
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03-11-2007, 09:26 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: On my boat
Posts: 9,698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake
Katie, that was a brilliant piece of writing! Nice work! A+++!
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I agree, great Katie !!!
Both Pete Townsend & Neil are not very good players, but wrote some incredible music |
LETS GO BRANDON
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03-11-2007, 09:59 AM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,945
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.. ah.. the "Clapton is God" crowd heard from..
Clapton is Good (very good), but not God.
Not Dissing him or Page.. just saying, they are over rated, put up too high on the pedestal.. Layla.. they had to bring in Duane Allman to save it, real bad time in EC's life, and it effected his playing.... just one example.. Jimmy, Jimi, and Eric, (and loads of others) when they had their *demons* all fell victom to sloppy play.. SRV in a documentry I saw years ago.. might have been channel 2.. went into great detail on all the legends & their "troubles"..
Seen Eric say similar in interviews.. the whole *God* thing makes him laugh.. he recommends a lot of guitar players over himself.. Albert Collins, BB King etc... heard Clapton say he (EC) is the most easiest to imitate.. just bend the strings on all the notes.. |
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03-11-2007, 10:19 AM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plymouth, Ma
Posts: 1,405
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Yep. The whole "God" thing is what makes him overrated. That doesn't mean he's not good or even great, just not the guitar "God".
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