$3.99/gal.

[fishpoopoo]

i sound like a broken record ... but ...

1) you can't blame President Bush for record gasoline prices

2) you can't blame oil companies for record gasoline prices

3) blame refinery capacity shortages in the u.s. for record gasoline prices.

4) refinery shminery you say? we haven't had ONE NEW refinery built in decades, largely because of stringent ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS. the existing infrastructure is going full-tilt boogie to keep up with demand now AND IS SHOWING STRAIN. also, Hurricane Katrina took some refinery capacity offline.

5) damn chinks and stinky vindaloos are hogging the world's oil that rightfully belong in MY pickup truck. let those bastards run their economies on rickshaws.

6) before this all blew up:
-> average gas tax in dollars per gallon in U.S.A: 25%
-> average gas tax in dollars per gallon in Europe: 75%

7) If unleaded 87 octane gasoline for autos goes above $3.25 (already well above this for boats), I'm gonna be spending a lot of time at my reloading or fly-tying benches this summer, cuz I ain't gonna be driving up to RI or MA at this rate. Sad to say, we're gonna have to think about saving up for the winter heating season. BOHICA, baby.

[Mr. Sandman]

Originally Posted by Bassturbed

i sound like a broken record ... but ...

1) you can't blame President Bush for record gasoline prices

2) you can't blame oil companies for record gasoline prices

3) blame refinery capacity shortages in the u.s. for record gasoline prices.

4) refinery shminery you say? we haven't had ONE NEW refinery built in decades, largely because of stringent ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS. the existing infrastructure is going full-tilt boogie to keep up with demand now AND IS SHOWING STRAIN. also, Hurricane Katrina took some refinery capacity offline.

5) damn chinks and stinkies are hogging the world's oil that rightfully belong in MY pickup truck. let those bastards run their economies on rickshaws.

6) If gasoline goes above $3.25, I'm gonna be spending a lot of time at my reloading or fly-tying benches this summer, cuz I ain't gonna be driving up to RI or MA at this rate.

Right on! Also we have not built a nuke plant in decades either. Guess how much Co2 and gloabal warming gasses they produce?....nada zip bupkiss. We need to:
1) Build more refineries today.
2) Drill in Alaska today
3) build conventional nuke plants
4) invest in atomic research for next gen nuke plants (read: no waste)

[RIROCKHOUND]

I agree.
Probably one of the greener supporters of Nuke's out there.
Alaska... maybe not. I would rather see a lot of the $$ should go towards investing in better recovery methods. they are getting deeper and more out of existing holes,

and #4 is right on. Nuke w/o Yucca Mtn is a good thing!

[Flaptail]

Bassturbed hit the nail on the head.

Scene #1, City Hall meeting room

"Uh, Ladies and Gentlemenwe are here before your zoning board and Town Government officials to ask permission to build a new refinery in the souteast corner of your town, it will bring jobs and added tax revenues to your city"

'A refinery'? "Not in my town, we don't want no stinking dirty oil refinery in our town, we'll call out the tree huggers, IFAW, The Sierra Club, The conservaion Law Foundation"! Try the next town over!"

"We did sir, every town and city weve asked has turned us down and the places we already have plants won't let us expand and modernize"

"So okay then that's it? "Okay then, sorry we asked" "Thank you all for your time".

Scene #2, in the company car outside city hall after the meeting adjourned.

"Better call the Board and tell them we got rejected" "okay, but you know the stock holders won't like this" "Ah well we will just have to raise the prices to meet sales and revenue expectations as usual" " I can't beleive how stupid the American public can be, if only they would let us build a few more plants, we could drop prices, supply would meet demand and with increased volume still make a profit by the increase sales" "I know, I will never understand it myself"

"I guess they just like paying more, business as usual" It's perfectly legal for now so........"

BEND OVER AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MAC]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

Bassturbed hit the nail on the head.

Scene #1, City Hall meeting room

"Uh, Ladies and Gentlemenwe are here before your zoning board and Town Government officials to ask permission to build a new refinery in the souteast corner of your town, it will bring jobs and added tax revenues to your city"

'A refinery'? "Not in my town, we don't want no stinking dirty oil refinery in our town, we'll call out the tree huggers, IFAW, The Sierra Club, The conservaion Law Foundation"! Try the next town over!"

"We did sir, every town and city weve asked has turned us down and the places we already have plants won't let us expand and modernize"

"So okay then that's it? "Okay then, sorry we asked" "Thank you all for your time".

Scene #2, in the company car outside city hall after the meeting adjourned.

"Better call the Board and tell them we got rejected" "okay, but you know the stock holders won't like this" "Ah well we will just have to raise the prices to meet sales and revenue expectations as usual" " I can't beleive how stupid the American public can be, if only they would let us build a few more plants, we could drop prices, supply would meet demand and with increased volume still make a profit by the increase sales" "I know, I will never understand it myself"

"I guess they just like paying more, business as usual" It's perfectly legal for now so........"

BEND OVER AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. The Not In My Back Yard (NIMBY) theories that the majority of Americans have now will be a crippling blow to us all.

[Flaptail]

NIMBY goes way beyond oil refineries. It's affect here on the Cape is crippling. The Industrial apark in Hyannis (Independence Park) was created to entice light industry to build plants that would help with the underpaying industry like hospitaility/food / entertainment that are viable only in the three short months of summer.

The Cape Cod Commision, which has manifested itself and morphed into this all powerful agency has quite lethaly squashed that concept. If you have ever been thru the park you can plainly see it would be perfect for this type of business but the feeling that "Olde Cape Cod" woulb be blighted by it has prevented it from happening so the haves that make thier money off cape and come here to build trophy homes are eating up all the available housing and the middle class who love this place as well live paycheck to paycheck and struggle to make ends meet and thier children can't afford to live where they were born becuase there are no housing units being built of modest pricing. Contractor/developers continue to make money at the expense of losingn that which is the vital compaonent of any society, the middle class. So on the Cape, if you did not buy your house before the mid 80's like I did and work as I and my wife do, in education, which has never been seen as a real money making occupation, you cannot afford to live here.

Cape Cod, the land of sun, surf, clean air and the ultra rich and the ultra poor with little or no one in between.

[Joe]

If ya can't beat em' start a dog-walking service or car detailing business....

[zacs]

In certain areas the NIMBY effect is certainly huge, especially in the densely populated Bos-DC corridor, but overall, there are plenty of places in the US that would gladly have a refinery or 20, but the US Bureaucratic red-tape & regs do not make it worth the effort.

You put in 2-3 years work to get all the licences & permits, and in the end it doesn't go through because you forgot to dot one little "i." This is the bigger problem. It is the same reason our country lags so far behind in the world of aquaculture.

[fishpoopoo]

Don't foget that energies like crude oil, heating oil, natural gas, and unleaded gasoline are traded on futures exchanges around the globe.

Commodity futures have attracted a lot of hot money over the last few years. Many reasons, including speculators (correctly) anticipating sharply rising demand in China and India, as well as a desire to diversify investments beyond dollar-denominated paper assets like stocks and bonds, as the U.S. dollar increasingly loses value and purchasing power.

If you have $8,100, you can control a position of 1,000 barrels or 42,000 gallons of unleaded gasoline (regular, I think).

Each full penny fluctation per gallon translates to a $420 increase or decline.

Talk about leverage!

Trading futures is more fun than poker.

[mr electric]

wonder of I can fit all my gear on the bus to Narragansett?

[Raven]

welcome to S-B brother...

[Raven]

on CNN about $4.00 per gallon for gas... ect.

they said stocks of gasoline have dropped off
for the last 12 weeks... in a row

making it the lowest it has been since since 1956

1956

thats 50 years ago wtf????

[wheresmy50]

Bassturbed - Yeah, Benzene. I can see it now, Joe Townie snuffing out his cigarette on the way into meeting where he'll complain about possible emissions.

People are full of chit.

[RoyL]

It cost me $109 to fill the tank in van last week, now I leave my full time job to do the fishing academy in june & I almost don't make enough to get by on that. If these prices continue i'll be riding around Boston on my bike and fishing for carp in the charles river.....Not what I was planning to do.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by Bassturbed

i sound like a broken record ... but ...

1) you can't blame President Bush for record gasoline prices

2) you can't blame oil companies for record gasoline prices

3) blame refinery capacity shortages in the u.s. for record gasoline prices.

4) refinery shminery you say? we haven't had ONE NEW refinery built in decades, largely because of stringent ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS. the existing infrastructure is going full-tilt boogie to keep up with demand now AND IS SHOWING STRAIN. also, Hurricane Katrina took some refinery capacity offline.

5) damn chinks and stinky vindaloos are hogging the world's oil that rightfully belong in MY pickup truck. let those bastards run their economies on rickshaws.

6) If unleaded 87 octane gasoline for autos goes above $3.25 (already well above this for boats), I'm gonna be spending a lot of time at my reloading or fly-tying benches this summer, cuz I ain't gonna be driving up to RI or MA at this rate. Sad to say, we're gonna have to think about saving up for the winter heating season. BOHICA, baby.

U don't sound like a broken record to me Ben. But here's my thoughts on the refinery side. (I could be wrong)

Most businesses keep a portion of their income for equipment upkeep and maintenance before they divy everything up. This portion is to help pay for new equipment as old stuff wears out or breaks down. They also look at ways to streamline and perfect their operations to make them more cost efficient.

I don't believe the oil companies do things this way though. They would rather make due with what they have and force prices to stay up. Why would it be beneficial to them to bring some older unused refineries back on line? Sure it may possibly lower prices at the pump, making the general population happy (for a little while anyways). But with lower production cost per unit they will come up with lower profit per unit of measure. Doesn't make much sense from big business point of view that I can see.


Remember last year when it hit 3 bux+. Not 1 day after the hurricane big oil was placing blame on it for fuel going so high. Now they have seen that the people can't and won't do anything about it so they are ecstatic. Nothing going on now and oil (crude) is lower than it has been in a long time. So why is regular 2.99 a gallon now?

I say start making the Oil Co.s start paying for Iraq................

[fishpoopoo]

Dave,

I hear ya. Maybe there is some of this at play.

But ... refiners make the same money per gallon and don't benefit from rising oil prices.

The only companies that benefit are the guys who hunt for it and suck it out of the ground and deliver it to be processed into gasoline and other distillates. Their costs to get oil don't change but if prices go up, the extra price goes straight to the bottom line. Not so with refiners.

You have to distinguish refineries from exploration & production companies. Some do both.

The environmental regulations for new refineries are onerous. Not only EPA and state regs, but a lot of NIMBY opposition too. It is what it is.

We wouldn't have too many problems if we had more capacity to refine sour crude (higher sulfur content), of which there is a fairly good supply.