I see it everywhere, people talking about how truely awful the fishing has been and it seems to get worse every year! I was talking with BasicPatrick earlier today and we were discussing how, over the last few seasons, the bait just seems to be staying offshore.....along with the bass! Not just at this time, when the so called "summer doldrums" are in full swing, but all season long! More and more surf fishermen are turning in their waders for boats because the fishing from the surf has been dismal and boats are the only way to get to the fish because, for some reason, they are not coming into the shore as in years past!! The backside of the Cape has been absolutely horrible the past 3 seasons and maybe we can attribute a good deal of that to the proliferation of the giant black rats...the seals! What about bait???? Is anyone seeing any? The fall run of the last 2 seasons has been the worst.....the last worst than the one before it! Is it a pattern? Is something wrong with the eco-system? Any thoughts or comments??? I for one believe something is wrong and I don't know what?!
does the lower catch rate coincide with when you started fishing your own plugs?
Im just kidding... in my case I am sure that where i fish the menhaden surge in the bay is killing my spots-
JohnR.....I was thinking the same thing about the fishing south and the coincidental drop of the fishing here...along with the bunker scenarios!
NEBE......caught more fish last year than ever before.....just no size! The plugs work fantastic.....I am amazed that they really work about as good as any plugs I have ever fished if not better! They cast better, swim better, and they produce.....when there is fish about! I would highly recommend to anyone that if they do not yet have a BigFish Bait Co. custom made fishing lure in their bag, run right out and get one!
Any other long term fisherman who have seen far more ups and downs then me want to add some thoughts?
Surf fishing is like a pedulum. When it swings in your favor you rationalize why. When it swings out of your favor its the same way. I've been at it since 1982 and have seen real bad,good, great, and ridiculous. In that time frame I can readily admit that the slow nights in the surf outnumber the good 5 to 1, perhaps more. Anyone who has a lot of years at it and claims differently is full of crap IMO. In the last five years I would say the fishing(surf) has been good to great when compared to the long term average.
Last edited by Back Beach; 07-19-2007 at 09:12 AM..
We all know those issues with the Cape Karl.....I am speaking of the broader issues.....the total lack of bait primarily! This is a problem all over Mass. The biggest question is why all of a sudden, the last 2-3 years, is the bait remaining offshore????
I don't think it's staying offshore, it's staying in Narragnsett Bay. I was out yesterday morning, found a school of pogies and there were 20# bass and 15# Blues all around the school. I caught fish till my arms were tired. And I was in 74 degree water, way up the river almost in Providence.
I know that the mung, seals, commerial guys in NC all are a contributiing factor to the poor Mass fishing. The fact of the matter is that the fish stay where the food is and right now RI has the bait.
Yeah....Rhode Island does not seem to be experiencing the same drop off because you have alot of bait obviously! Why, however, is Mass. suffering so badly? That is the question....or is it just the down section of the cycle????
Yeah....Rhode Island does not seem to be experiencing the same drop off because you have alot of bait obviously! Why, however, is Mass. suffering so badly? That is the question....or is it just the down section of the cycle????
BF,
Mass has been this way before. When the pendulum swings back for the cape guys, it will be good again. Can't say what factors are going to be involved or when it will happen, but the fish will come back, probably when people least expect it....
Any other long term fisherman who have seen far more ups and downs then me want to add some thoughts?
This is a good topic and it could use some additional insight from those who have gone through lean times from shore in the past.
Are there any other factors that are currently in place, especially relating to baitfish that parallel slower stretches in years prior? I tend to agree there's a lot of fish out there, but clearly surf fisherman in many areas aren't or can't cast to them.
Yeah Pete. Mike is right. Even at it's worse it doesn't compare to how bad it was in the mid to late 80s. I remember in 85 when I caught 3 schoolies at Deep Hole one morning and I told the guy who ran the old bait shop on Monahans in Narragansett. He told me I was lying. he hadn't seen any Bass for 3 weeks and this was in June.
When the moratorium was on and we went from 34" to 36". We would fish RI 5 out of 7 nights a week and get maybe 1 fish that was a "keeper". There were no peanut bunker and sand eels and silver sides were the bait to be found. We'd pray for the Mullet run around Sept 15th around Weakapaug because you had a shot at a decent fish...maybe one in a week worth of nights. And I'm talking fishing from 10 or 11 till dawn.
So around 87 or 88 we started to run back up to the Cape. We would run the Back all night and maybe find fish at the Mission Bell or laurias for an hour. If we found fish we'd drive home in the morning. Sleep maybe 3 hours, do stuff with the kids and head back up at 6 or 7. I put in tons of 600 mile weekends when the fish were on the upswing in the early 90s.
During this period of time RI surf sucked big time. Everyone would drive from Narrow River to the Sheep's pen to Poind Jude, Deep Hole, Green Hill, Charlestown, Quonnie, Weakapaug, and watch Hill in one night looking, looking and maybe you got a couple of schoolies.
I am firmly convinced that the huge amount of Bunker up in Narr Bay is having an effect on the fishing everywhere. I have never seen so many big fish concentrated in the Bay. I saw fish from the mid teens to the low 20s all morning yesterday in 74 degree water. You NEVER could find fish in water that warm before but there is so much adult Menhaden in the bay the bass are staying on them. The reason? They are easy pickings. I worked a school that was about 2 or 3 acres yesterday. There were probably several thousand bunker in that school all on top with bass and blues under them. High protein diet for the fish without expending a lot of energy.
Yeah....Rhode Island does not seem to be experiencing the same drop off because you have alot of bait obviously! Why, however, is Mass. suffering so badly? That is the question....or is it just the down section of the cycle????
RI has quite a problem from shore...
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement -- Keith Benning
I disagree with ri having a problem from shore. Just gotta be where the bait is, now if I could just crack the 30lb mark we'll be fine, sooooo many fish 15lbs to 25-26 lbs from shore its dumb this year.. Its easier to pick through the twinkies in a boat...
Bait concentrates fish. I think that that is really the issue here. Those that have access (boat, skill, info, etc) to the bait are having a great year. Those that don't are just working for stray fish here and there that have broken off from the herd, so to speak. Lots of bunker in jersey and the bay = lots of fish in jersey and the bay = less fish other places. Lots of sandeels off shore on the cape = lots of fish off shore on the cape = less fish on shore on the cape (seals definately play a factor here - they're probably why the sandeels stay off shore now, or at least a factor).
I also think the fact that we've screwed up the ocean so much is a major factor here. Everything has been so overfished and thrown out of wack. The diversity of baitfish is way down. Its gotten to the point that when one species is protected (pogies), they flurish relative to other species (mackeral, scup, squid, whatever) and concentrate the bass on them. The number of seals on the cape is, partly, a result on overfishing of herring and cod in the gulf of maine where the seals should be - once again we've screwed up and there are consequences.
Up on the N. Shore of MA, with the exception of June's pogies in salem harbor and september's peanuts all over the place, I never really feel like there are a lot of inshore baitfish. As a result the fish are typically concentrated around the rocks eating crabs, lobster, pollack, sea robins, etc - more solitary prey. This makes them more attainable to surfcasters. If we had tons of herring within a mile or so of shore, those fish probably wouldn't bother coming in shallow and "scrounging" the rocks. I feel like that is why june usually isn't that great (at least at most of the spots I fish), july august and october are the best shots for larger fish, and september is big numbers but low quality usually.
"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker" - Van Helsing
Surf fishing is like a pedulum. When it swings in your favor you rationalize why. When it swings out of your favor its the same way. I've been at it since 1982 and have seen real bad,good, great, and ridiculous. In that time frame I can readily admit that the slow nights in the surf outnumber the good 5 to 1, perhaps more. Anyone who has a lot of years at it and claims differently is full of crap IMO. In the last five years I would say the fishing(surf) has been good to great when compared to the long term average.
How about July 2004? 4 and a half weeks,three nights a week minimum on the backside. Three two pound bluefish and one 47 inch bass caught in the glare of headlights on a needlefish. I kept thinking why do I do this to myself?
I can only talk about what I know and that is Boston Harbor. Every year, at least for me it's the same. A good push of big fish comes by Boston Harbor around June and does the drive by. This year there was biggies. Poagies have been in moderate, most that I have seen since the 80's and shore fishing was horrible back then but the boaters rejoiced. July for me has always been slow. The Poagies have kept it interesting but not a sure bet for big fish. August-September is prime time up here for big fish. I hope that trend continues. I can't speak for everyone on Boston Harbor but it's been the same thing every year, at least for me.
I fish the Boston Harbor from the shore. June was terrible, but I haven't been out much in July, only a handful of times. However, I did real good those outings. In one case several fish 28' thru 36' landed on fishfinders rigged w/ squid and halved green crabs during a false dawn in less than a hour (I know you that's Junior Varsity for you boat guys) at Castle Island (I dont care about spot burning, my presentation is IMPECCABLE and far above REPROACH, I'm like the Batman of the Castle Island Swims. While you shore castle island guys get sunburned, sitting on your buckets, lamenting on how terrible "luck" you have, fishing the hottest hours of the day lobbing chunks to skates, I'm in the Batcave). Remarkable improvement in water quality year after year, and Although June has traditionally been the month where fishing slowly picks up momentum, my fellow collective of angler friends have informed me that the shore fishing jumpstarted after that first early July heatwave, even in the inner harbor. It also helps that there aren't too many seals along the urban waterfront. Lots of schoolies poached though,....
Rhode Islanders are blind to let the pogie boats come in and net the bait from our waters.Thats why fishing is slow,that's the answer to all the problems.The schools get netted and taken,when the bait go's away the fish that eat the bait find elsewhere to eat.Sad day when the Ocean state doesn't want to improve ocean fishing.Makes me sick day after day.I feel for the guys on the cape with the nasty seals but you can bet I'd be hunting them in the cloak of night .1 less seal is a better chance for keeping a fish or being able to cast a once good beach.Good video with seal ----->
Last edited by Skunkmaster; 07-19-2007 at 06:04 PM..
Been saying for yrs. that there is a direct corallation to the abundance of bait in Nj an the bad fishing in the cape...
There also seems to be poor amounts of other migratory baitfish like herring an Makeral.Last yrs mac run along with this springs was pretty dismal.These are the long haul migratory fish that lead the bass on their way north every spring...
FORE!
It's usually darkest just before it turns Black..
Been saying for yrs. that there is a direct corallation to the abundance of bait in Nj an the bad fishing in the cape...
There also seems to be poor amounts of other migratory baitfish like herring an Makeral.Last yrs mac run along with this springs was pretty dismal.These are the long haul migratory fish that lead the bass on their way north every spring...
Ding, ding, ding---we have a winner
I've said for years--if you don't have herring to get the bass into the Canal in May, and dropbacks to keep them around in June, the fishing will be hit or miss until the fall.
What keeps the Canal going these days is small bait--herring fry, peanuts, maybe some sand eels at the east end, silversides in the west end. All late summer baits.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
I've said for years--if you don't have herring to get the bass into the Canal in May, and dropbacks to keep them around in June, the fishing will be hit or miss until the fall.
Mike ,,not sure but isn't the cycle when a herring is spawn , then later drops to the sea, its like 7 yrs. before that fish comes back to the run and spawns itself . Meaning next year the run could be good with a different yr. class herring,, but still not a healthy run over all with some really Bad (decimated)year classes . I always thought it was wack years back us getting pogeys from jersey .. Few bait shops had native ,but most were jersey pogeys .. No sense in going up on size limit of bass when we can't feed them,,, like last time ..
Yeah Pete. Mike is right. Even at it's worse it doesn't compare to how bad it was in the mid to late 80s. I remember in 85 when I caught 3 schoolies at Deep Hole one morning and I told the guy who ran the old bait shop on Monahans in Narragansett. He told me I was lying. he hadn't seen any Bass for 3 weeks and this was in June.
When the moratorium was on and we went from 34" to 36". We would fish RI 5 out of 7 nights a week and get maybe 1 fish that was a "keeper". There were no peanut bunker and sand eels and silver sides were the bait to be found. We'd pray for the Mullet run around Sept 15th around Weakapaug because you had a shot at a decent fish...maybe one in a week worth of nights. And I'm talking fishing from 10 or 11 till dawn.
So around 87 or 88 we started to run back up to the Cape. We would run the Back all night and maybe find fish at the Mission Bell or laurias for an hour. If we found fish we'd drive home in the morning. Sleep maybe 3 hours, do stuff with the kids and head back up at 6 or 7. I put in tons of 600 mile weekends when the fish were on the upswing in the early 90s.
During this period of time RI surf sucked big time. Everyone would drive from Narrow River to the Sheep's pen to Poind Jude, Deep Hole, Green Hill, Charlestown, Quonnie, Weakapaug, and watch Hill in one night looking, looking and maybe you got a couple of schoolies.
I am firmly convinced that the huge amount of Bunker up in Narr Bay is having an effect on the fishing everywhere. I have never seen so many big fish concentrated in the Bay. I saw fish from the mid teens to the low 20s all morning yesterday in 74 degree water. You NEVER could find fish in water that warm before but there is so much adult Menhaden in the bay the bass are staying on them. The reason? They are easy pickings. I worked a school that was about 2 or 3 acres yesterday. There were probably several thousand bunker in that school all on top with bass and blues under them. High protein diet for the fish without expending a lot of energy.
Just my humble opinion.
Paul
Good stuff, thanks Paul.
I've only been at it in the salt since the early 90's, and only VERY seriously since the mid 90's. A little over a decade or so just doesn't give you that much perspective, overall.
Eddy, I think the cycle is a 3 year one, which is why they went with a 3 year moratorium--give the whole biomass from any single run a chance to spawn, and then re-assess the stocks.
I think Bournedale is in big trouble, and should stay closed until they hit the 250,000 fish count.
Of course, since the counter is broken, and the state seems unwilling to give Bourne DNR the money to repair/replace it, no one will really know how many went up this year
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
I am pretty sure it is three yrs also...
It doesn't matter between the seals an the trawlers they could give em 100 yrs..
I have seen a show on tv how seals have basically decimated herring stocks up north...
FORE!
It's usually darkest just before it turns Black..
At least on the Capes beaches I don't think it is a matter of bait being pushed off shore. It the years when I was lucky enough to have had better fishing then I could have dreamed there was not a lot of bait along the beaches. At least not more or less then now.
The fish that I cleaned would sometimes have a few sand eels inside. Sometimes a squid. Some herring, small macks but it was not like the fish were stuffed, feeding like crazy. I would have nights where you would be catching large fish every cast but when you cleaned the fish they were empty. Every article you read said the fish were starving.
I came to the conclusion that the fish would be 0.50-2 miles out during the day and move inshore for safety at night. It took the fish a couple of years to figure it out but with the seals it was not safe inshore anymore. Unfortunately it is not going to change.
Some of you guys keep talking about no bait...true where you are, but where I am fishing the bait is thick.
I mentioned this 2 weeks ago. I was fishing in Wells Maine. The bait was so thick, it looked as though you were looking at pavement.
It lasted for hours. The waterfowl were having a feast!
2 small stripers!
2 cut lines due to Blues and then NOTHING...and I mean nothing.
6 hours on that bridge.
I would love to know where the Bass are.
Sorry....
...did I go off topic?!
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