Don't TASE me bro

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

The kid refused to follow the rules of the forum, specifically refusing to stand in line like the other students to ask his questions. He instead chose to rush towards the podium. At that point he is subject to ejection. When an officer takes his arm to lead him away he pulls away. He now is resisting an officer who is lawfully ejecting the student. His only right at the point is the right to go to jail. The Freedom of Speech does not allow one to break laws in the process.

Excellent try......but no.

Think about what you just said..."forum rules".Constitution does not have a clause for "forum rules".This kid violated no constitutional laws,
none.

Oh and btw the stupid "boobtube" video doesn't really show ALL of what happened,it only shows what happened AFTER said student followed the "forum rules".He was asking questions LONG before the boobtube vid.

Oops.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Excellent try......but no.

Think about what you just said..."forum rules".Constitution does not have a clause for "forum rules".This kid violated no constitutional laws,
none.

Oops.

Using that premise anyone of us at any time may barge into a public meeting, take over the microphone, talk over who is actually designated to be speaking at the time and if any one tries to prevent us from causing that type of disruption we can simply push them aside (resist) and we are protected by the freedom of speech.

Way wrong. I'm not basing his behavior solely on the video clips but also on the witness accounts.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Excellent try......but no.

Think about what you just said..."forum rules".Constitution does not have a clause for "forum rules".This kid violated no constitutional laws,
none.

Oh and btw the stupid "boobtube" video doesn't really show ALL of what happened,it only shows what happened AFTER said student followed the "forum rules".He was asking questions LONG before the boobtube vid.

Oops.

I saw the whole video, and no matter what you claim happened, he resisted arrest. Can't anyone just let the police extract them from a situation without making a scene? This kid wanted to make a spectacle of himself and he did. In the course of doing that, he got himself roughed up a little by some police who probably were trained to act accordingly when threatened. Sorry kid, but you brought this on yourself. Next time you bring a video camera and try to make a funny video for your website, remember what happened here. It's too bad that people can't respect the rights that were given to them a long time ago, when the world was a different place. The freedoms given to us all in the Constitution should be respected and not used as a jumping pad for idiotic behavior. Don't hide behind your Constitutional rights when you yourself are breaking the law.

I'm sure that there are a lot of anti-law enforcement and anti government people that think this kid was wronged. Whatever your political views are, he broke the law. He is not some martyr trying to change the world. He's a trouble maker looking to get some attention and knows that videos on the internet are the way to do it.

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by fishbones

I saw the whole video, and no matter what you claim happened, he resisted arrest. Can't anyone just let the police extract them from a situation without making a scene? This kid wanted to make a spectacle of himself and he did. In the course of doing that, he got himself roughed up a little by some police who probably were trained to act accordingly when threatened. Sorry kid, but you brought this on yourself. Next time you bring a video camera and try to make a funny video for your website, remember what happened here. It's too bad that people can't respect the rights that were given to them a long time ago, when the world was a different place. The freedoms given to us all in the Constitution should be respected and not used as a jumping pad for idiotic behavior. Don't hide behind your Constitutional rights when you yourself are breaking the law.

I'm sure that there are a lot of anti-law enforcement and anti government people that think this kid was wronged. Whatever your political views are, he broke the law. He is not some martyr trying to change the world. He's a trouble maker looking to get some attention and knows that videos on the internet are the way to do it.

Weak argument at best.

Blindly following "the law" has lead to terror,death and destruction throughout the world.At what point do laws become absurd?China has laws but were the students in Tienamin Square "wrong"?What about Tibet and their religious freedoms?Both must be wrong and all must be arrested.Oh and the ultimate example:Our Revolution,we broke the King's law so I guess all Americans should be punished.

Oh and as far your dumbass reference to martyrdom the only martyrs these days are muslims and they be looking pretty stupid these days.
Btw fyi you kinda gotta DIE to be a martyr.

Oh and before you lambaste me for questioning the "law"...Loyal US citizen and war vet.

In the end this kid asked 100% legit questions,albeit in a fairly stupid way but the none the less legit questions that should have been answered.

AMERICANS......QUESTION THE LAW!!!QUESTION EVERYTHING!!!ASKING
QUESTIONS IS WHAT MADE US GREAT!!!BEING BLIND IS WHAT IS BRINGING US DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Weak argument at best.

Blindly following "the law" has lead to terror,death and destruction throughout the world.At what point do laws become absurd?China has laws but were the students in Tienamin Square "wrong"?What about Tibet and their religious freedoms?Both must be wrong and all must be arrested.Oh and the ultimate example:Our Revolution,we broke the King's law so I guess all Americans should be punished.

Oh and as far your dumbass reference to martyrdom the only martyrs these days are muslims and they be looking pretty stupid these days.
Btw fyi you kinda gotta DIE to be a martyr.

Oh and before you lambaste me for questioning the "law"...Loyal US citizen and war vet.

In the end this kid asked 100% legit questions,albeit in a fairly stupid way but the none the less legit questions that should have been answered.

AMERICANS......QUESTION THE LAW!!!QUESTION EVERYTHING!!!ASKING
QUESTIONS IS WHAT MADE US GREAT!!!BEING BLIND IS WHAT IS BRINGING US DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boy Basswipe, thanks for straightening me out. I appreciate that you are a vet and thanks for serving your country. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. But, I think you may be using hyperbole a bit with your references to Tienamen Square, Tibet and our own Revolution (as I did with my reference to him trying to be a martyr). Those situations took place in other places and or in very different times. Our society has changed a lot since 2001, and I think law enforcement officers and many other people are a little bit more on edge. We live in a world and a country full of unstable people who pull crazy stunts every day. If you saw my early posts to this thread, you would have seen how I feel. I am all for people having freedoms and rights, but not at the expense of putting others in danger. This jerk asked his question and then tried to monopolize the forum. He was asked to step away, and didn't. The police then physically tried to remove him and he resisted and flailed his elbows at them. At that point, the police had to make a quick decision on how to subdue him. He became a threat to them and in my opinion they acted accordingly.
Again, this kid brought a video camera with him to film his "stunt" so he was not just another citizen who went to hear Kerry speak. If it was somone else who just asked a question (whether I thought it was legitimate or not) and got upset because they didn't get an answer, I wouldn't expect them to just sit down, but I also wouldn't expect them to pull what this kid did.
Also, don't refer to my reference as "dumbass" and then go on to compare a college speaking engagement with Tienamen Square. That's absurd. You can think my argument is weak, but it is my opinion. I have never served in the military as you have, but you probably have never had a knife held up to your throat by someone who was not mentally stable. Believe me, it changes the way you look at people. As far as our country being brought down, I would blame it not on being blind as you say. I would blame it on a country where being politically correct has taken precedence over being safe and protecting our country.

[basswipe]

Wow don't even know how to respond to that other than you just don't get it.

Its not about laws.Its about changing people's attitudes and core philosophies.

A perfect example is the 2nd amendment as our fore-fathers interpreted it to which I'm a firm believer.Under YOUR belief system we should have laws to govern it,pro or con.What I believe is change how people feel:killing is wrong.

If everybody can leave their houses without fear of being shot and I can leave mine with my AR-15 without fear of being arrested then that's how it should be.

Feel free to substitute any one of our 1st ten Amendments and the argument is just as legit and just.

AMERICANS DON'T BE BLIND!

Like I said you just don't get it.My referance to other countries and their laws is 100% applicable.Blind faith is just that:
blind faith.

PS.This continuing referance to martyrs is dumb-ass.If you want to be a martyr you must accept the fact that you're going to die for your cause.No point in even bringing it up a second time.

[fishbones]

Basswipe - in my last post I agreed that my "martyr" reference was hyperbole - excessive exaggeration used to make a point. Your "dumbass" comment was disrespectful and not relevant to my earlier post. I know the kid is not a martyr, but I believe he has a complex nonetheless. As for me getting it, I do get that I am expressing my opinion like others have done here and you can attack me and question my intelligence if you want to. You do not know me though, so you should refrain from questioning what I know or don't know. You say that this is not about the law, but to me it is, in the context of what the police did. The kid disobeyed a police order (which is against the law in FL) and then resisted arrest. They used the force that they thought was necessary, whether you agree or not. To compare this situation to Tienamin Square, the American Revolution and Tibet is something I don't agree with. By doing so, I think you are either implying that the kid is an agent of change or you are severely diminishing the importance of the other events. They are just not even close to being on the same level. Do I think that the police or government are always right? No, but I respect our country and I respect our laws. I do agree with your statement that peoples attitudes and core philosophies must change if the world is going to change. But, I also believe that laws must be enforced so that we can grow as a nation.
As far as this particular issue, let's just agree to disagree. I do appreciate some good back and forth debate, and hope that you were not offended by anything I wrote here. I didn't make it personal, nor did I question your intelligence. I am following up with a pm so that you may understand where I am coming from a little better.