Hot Stove Trade Talk - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

nightfighter · 11-29-2007, 07:03 AM

Jacoby is on my untouchable list, even if it kills Santana talks..... Buchold may not be though.

afterhours · 11-29-2007, 07:24 AM

jacoby has all star written all over him- kid's a true 5 tool player. i agree with with ya ross.

vineyardblues · 11-29-2007, 07:30 AM

Freakin Yankees are going to get Santana

In Hanks world!

ThomCat · 11-29-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vineyardblues

Freakin Yankees are going to get Santana

Then they'll have ONE! Wang has already peaked and Mussina is ready for the white belt & shoes golf cart crew in Boca. The rest are wannabes & somedays. Let them overpay and overpay only to implode again

The Dad Fisherman · 11-29-2007, 09:32 AM

I agree, the future looks bright for the Sox, let the yank-mees keep writing the big checks and mortgaging the future for the Instant fix. Thats what got them where they are today.

Mike P · 11-29-2007, 01:41 PM

Who was the last lefty to win 20 games pitching in Fenway--Mel Parnell?

Hurst and Lee never won 20.

The Green Monster has traditionally been the death of LHPs

afterhours · 11-29-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike P

Who was the last lefty to win 20 games pitching in Fenway--Mel Parnell?

Hurst and Lee never won 20.

The Green Monster has traditionally been the death of LHPs

good point.

ThomCat · 11-30-2007, 05:55 AM

That kind of contract kinda distorts the pay scale, don't it. Can't help but generate a bit of "friction". They've been lucky so far bringing guys like Drew in making more than most of their own stars. Lowell settled but how about Beckett with a guy coming through the door making two and a half times what he's gettin'. Just sayin'....

Bigcat · 11-30-2007, 07:27 AM

How about this I read it somewhere. With Dr Charles leaving the Sox to go with the Dodgers, will Larry Lucchino follow? Larry has been with Charles forever.
The rumor is once the Sox get the permits to punch fenway out to 38.000 the team will go up for sale?
So signing Santana at any cost would make the team more attractive?

The Dad Fisherman · 11-30-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigcat

So signing Santana at any cost would make the team more attractive?

and more expensive, usually before you sell a team you get rid of the assets to make it an easier sale

Bigcat · 11-30-2007, 10:14 AM

More expensive yes, but also with a lot of key pieces in place to contend for several years.

Slammer223 · 12-01-2007, 05:41 PM

Personally,I'm not giving up Ellsbury for ANYBODY.I just love the kid.We've never had anyone that FAST,not Otis Nixon,not Ellis Burks,not Tommy Harper.Lowrie,Masterson,Coco,even Lester pack your stuff boys.Too bad Rogelio Moret went crazy,he might have been a very good southpaw.

RIGeezer · 12-02-2007, 09:38 AM

I wish that Gagne (Gag Me ) was included in the trade. I would give him up in a heart beat.

afterhours · 12-02-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CocoHo

I wish that Gagne (Gag Me ) was included in the trade. I would give him up in a heart beat.

he's gone!

Bigcat · 12-02-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afterhours

he's gone!

Not quite yet, the Sox have offerd arbitration he has until Dec 7 to accept.

RIGeezer · 12-03-2007, 01:46 PM

I Like Elsbury as well and i don't think it will happen but if it did do you realize what the Sox would have going into 2008?
Look at it this way what they have now is what got them the Championship and Elsbury was only a very small part of it so it wouldn't be like it was going to hurt the Sox chances of repeating,if anything it would barring injuries give them a real advantage.

Mike P · 12-03-2007, 02:33 PM

There's more to it than that.

Santana has a no trade clause in his current contract. He has to waive that before he can be traded by the Twinkies. Reportedly he will only waive it if he signs a new deal with his new team first, and he's asking $150 million over 6 years, or $25 million a year. The only player in all of baseball making more is A-Rod. Santana wants $25 million to play once a week and start what, 35 games a year?

Bucholz, Lester and Papilbon together aren't making $1 million a year combined.

Then, in two years, you have Beckett at the end of his contract, and if his numbers are better than Santana's, and IMO they will be, what will he ask for? And he'll still be younger than Santana.

Then you have the little detail that Santana was 15-13 last year, with an ERA around 4.00, and served up 33 dingers in a ballpark that doesn't have a green wall 310' away breathing down a lefty pitcher's neck.

And for this, you're willing to trade a prospect who can hit for average, has shown a little power, with speed and a great glove and a good arm. The guy came up into the middle of a pennant race, with no Major League experience, hit .353 down the stretch and .360 in the post season, stole 9 bases in 9 tries only reaching base 49 times. Speed is the one thing your team lacks and this kid has speed to spare. You can work on your hitting, you can work on your defense, and you can work on your pitch selection, but the two things that God gave an outfielder that he can't learn are his legs and his arm. Oh, yeah, and he's equally at home in all 3 outfield positions.

EarnedStripes44 · 12-03-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike P

There's more to it than that.

Santana has a no trade clause in his current contract. He has to waive that before he can be traded by the Twinkies. Reportedly he will only waive it if he signs a new deal with his new team first, and he's asking $150 million over 6 years, or $25 million a year. The only player in all of baseball making more is A-Rod. Santana wants $25 million to play once a week and start what, 35 games a year?

Bucholz, Lester and Papilbon together aren't making $1 million a year combined.

Then, in two years, you have Beckett at the end of his contract, and if his numbers are better than Santana's, and IMO they will be, what will he ask for? And he'll still be younger than Santana.

Then you have the little detail that Santana was 15-13 last year, with an ERA around 4.00, and served up 33 dingers in a ballpark that doesn't have a green wall 310' away breathing down a lefty pitcher's neck.

And for this, you're willing to trade a prospect who can hit for average, has shown a little power, with speed and a great glove and a good arm. The guy came up into the middle of a pennant race, with no Major League experience, hit .353 down the stretch and .360 in the post season, stole 9 bases in 9 tries only reaching base 49 times. Speed is the one thing your team lacks and this kid has speed to spare. You can work on your hitting, you can work on your defense, and you can work on your pitch selection, but the two things that God gave an outfielder that he can't learn are his legs and his arm. Oh, yeah, and he's equally at home in all 3 outfield positions.

god d*** right!!!!

RIGeezer · 12-04-2007, 08:56 AM

I have to say good point Mike.

riverrat55 · 12-05-2007, 09:23 PM

Hope the red sox are smart and decide "NO DEAL"!!!!
Giving up to much and will be paying to much!!!

Mike P · 12-06-2007, 02:47 PM

I'm wondering what the snag is. I'm thinking that the Sox sounded out Santana's agent about what they're willing to offer on a sign and trade, and it's not what Santana thinks he can get.

I doubt that the Twins are holding out for more than Boston's offering in players.

Maybe the Mets are dumb enough to pay his asking price. I also hear the Mariners, of all teams, might be in the market now.

The Dad Fisherman · 12-06-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike P

I also hear the Mariners, of all teams, might be in the market now.

In....and out pretty damn quick

Mike P · 12-06-2007, 04:43 PM

Even more so, it sounds like Santana's salary demands are what the Sox are having problems with--it certainly can't be what's being offered compared to the crap the Mets have up there. Maybe that's for Santana straight-up, without a multi-year deal in place.

Fishin' Blues · 12-06-2007, 07:57 PM

IMO, the Twinkies are crazy to get rid of him before the trade deadline next year anyway. I don't know if they need to dump salary, but he could get them 10 wins by then. By that point there'll be a handful of teams on the playoff cusp that would be interested in overpaying for him.

I think they're just trolling him out there to see if a team will WAY over-compensate them for him.

Mike P · 12-06-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishin' Blues

IMO, the Twinkies are crazy to get rid of him before the trade deadline next year anyway. I don't know if they need to dump salary, but he could get them 10 wins by then. By that point there'll be a handful of teams on the playoff cusp that would be interested in overpaying for him.

I think they're just trolling him out there to see if a team will WAY over-compensate them for him.

Except that Santana is on record as saying that he won't accept a trade once the 2008 season starts. He has a no-trade clause in his contract, and if he sticks to his word, he'll play the season out with the Twinkies and walk at the end of the season. They're way overplaying their hand here. The Sox are offering players who won't be eligible for free agency for several seasons and who combined aren't making a million bucks. The Twins' choices are, trade him now and get something for him, or don't trade him and get nothing when he walks at the end of the year.

Fishin' Blues · 12-07-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike P

Except that Santana is on record as saying that he won't accept a trade once the 2008 season starts. He has a no-trade clause in his contract, and if he sticks to his word, he'll play the season out with the Twinkies and walk at the end of the season. They're way overplaying their hand here. The Sox are offering players who won't be eligible for free agency for several seasons and who combined aren't making a million bucks. The Twins' choices are, trade him now and get something for him, or don't trade him and get nothing when he walks at the end of the year.

I hadn't heard that about him not accepting a trade when the season starts, but I lifted this quote off ESPN.

"The Twins and Red Sox are going to have to get very creative, or the Twins are going to wind up just hanging on to their ace -- for now.

"I know people say they'd get less for him if they kept him and traded him in July, but I don't believe that," said one GM. "To be honest, I think they'd get more."

Fishin' Blues · 12-11-2007, 08:43 PM

The Santana trade rumor is back on ESPN. They think it's centered around Ellsbury, not Lester.