Any Doubters??? - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

wrikerjr · 01-01-2008, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike P

No, I'm looking at the NFL playoff picture that starts this weekend.

6 teams from each conference qualify.

Of the 5 other AFC teams--the Pats beat 3--who just happen to be all 3 of the other divisional winners.

Of the NFC teams, the Pats also beat 3--including the team with the best record in the NFC, on their field, by 3 touchdowns.

Every NFC team on their schedule had at least a .500 record.

They also beat a 10-6 AFC team that didn't make the playoffs.

The NFL schedule requires you to play a home and home series against every other team in your division. It isn't the Pats' fault that the Bills had a mediocre year, and that the Jets and Dolphins were horrendous.

Playing and beating 6 of the other 11 playoff qualifiers--including two 13-3 teams on the road--kind of trumps playing 6 games against your own divisional cupcakes. And lest anyone forget, both of those 13-3 teams were undefeated when the Pats played them.

This isn't college ball where Ohio State can go out and schedule Bowling Green for 4 straight years. You get handed a schedule by the league, and you play it.

In 1972, Miami beat the teams the schedule makers put in front of them. They're knocked for it today, but it was what they had in front of them. They still beat two good teams in the AFC playoffs and the NFC champion in the Super Bowl.

I agree 100% I agree that you beat the premier teams in the league, I have never agrued any of that or said anyhting about that. I have never said anythin against that, going back in the thread someone said they had the 3rd toughest sos and they were wrong they are looking at the old sos that the league uses to determine the schedules.

I agree 100% you don't make the schedule and you can't control who you play you just go out and win.

I am very willing to say that if NE wins the superbowl then they are the best team ever assembled but until then they will have to win the superbowl.

everyone seems to think I said that NE's accomplishment is diminished by their SOS. That is not true and I never said.

I do think if NE does not win the superbowl the 16-0 season is heavily diminished

and I do not believe that BB is the greatest coach ever, i believe he is top 5 but not the greatest ever.

with that said it should be a great playoff and I fully expect after every NE win pm's from people telling me how wrong I am.

The Dad Fisherman · 01-01-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrikerjr

I do not believe that BB is the greatest coach ever, i believe he is top 5 but not the greatest ever.

Then who do you think IS the Greatest? How about you list your top 5?

Mike P · 01-01-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Then who do you think IS the Greatest? How about you list your top 5?

I think you have to give serious consideration to Bill Walsh.

If you go back to the 60, and even into the mid 70s, head coaches didn't have the army of assistants that they do nowadays. Much of game planning, and especially the in-game adjustments, was the head coach's job. Guys like Hank Stram and Sid Gilman were tremendous at both jobs, and true innovators.

BigFish · 01-01-2008, 06:49 PM

Bill Walsh would be in my top 5......Chuck Knoll, Lombardi, Landry, and.......Bill Belichik!

wrikerjr · 01-01-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Bill Walsh would be in my top 5......Chuck Knoll, Lombardi, Landry, and.......Bill Belichik!

Can you please rank them, a lot of people here are saying that Bill Belichick is the best ever. do you agree???

wrikerjr · 01-01-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Then who do you think IS the Greatest? How about you list your top 5?

1. Paul Brown
2. Chuck Noll (tie with lombardi)
2. Vince Lombardi (tie with lombardi)
4. Bill Belichick
5. Tom Landry

I would love to put Madden on the list but I just can't do it.

Go ahead and pick it apart as I know everyone will!!!

lets hear everyone else's list

BigFish · 01-01-2008, 06:55 PM

Tough to pick a top 5 for sure....I was waffling over Joe Gibbs....could have easily put him in there!

Madden???? Not even on the radar! What are his credentials.....1 Superbowl and what else? Did he even coach that long??

BigFish · 01-01-2008, 06:58 PM

Oh ok!

5. Bill Walsh
4. Chuck Knoll
3. Tom Landry
2. Lombardi
1. Bill Belichik

Tough to put them in order too.....Belichik is definitely my number 1!

wrikerjr · 01-01-2008, 07:05 PM

madden coaches less than 10 years and had 1 superbowl and the greatest winning percentage of coaches ever and the greatest winning percentage for a decade period.

BigFish · 01-01-2008, 07:11 PM

I can't get the image of Madden out of my head where in the Superbowl (forget which it was) the Pats could have sat on the ball and gone into overtime and taken their chances or played for the win, which they did and won and Madden thought their decision was a poor one.....until they won! Was it the St. Louis game?? I forget?

Raider Ronnie · 01-01-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrikerjr

madden coaches less than 10 years and had 1 superbowl and the greatest winning percentage of coaches ever and the greatest winning percentage for a decade period.

Quickest and youngest coach to get 100 wins also!

wrikerjr · 01-01-2008, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Oh ok!

5. Bill Walsh
4. Chuck Knoll
3. Tom Landry
2. Lombardi
1. Bill Belichik

Tough to put them in order too.....Belichik is definitely my number 1!

where is brown. that my friend is a travesty 7 championships, most of the people on your list got their start with brown and have aknowledged what he has done for the game and coaching. he changed the game as we know it today. Not having him on your list highly devalues your list. I don't even know why I have to defend him.

The Dad Fisherman · 01-01-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Oh ok!

5. Bill Walsh
4. Chuck Knoll
3. Tom Landry
2. Lombardi
1. Bill Belichik

Tough to put them in order too.....Belichik is definitely my number 1!

I'd lose Landry and put Gibbs in...Guy won 3 SB with 3 different QB's....not to shabby

Raider Ronnie · 01-01-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Tough to pick a top 5 for sure....I was waffling over Joe Gibbs....could have easily put him in there!

Madden???? Not even on the radar! What are his credentials.....1 Superbowl and what else? Did he even coach that long??

Gee Larry
How about giving some credit when it's due and not being such a homer!!!
Yes he only coached for 10 years but he stopped because of health reason and fear of flying !
10 years-7 trips to the afc championship game and either having to play the Steelers or Miami and yes 1 super bowl win.
Some experts even thought he was good enough to put him in the hall of fame !
And 90% of all other coaches would have played it safe and sat on it and played for overtime!

BigFish · 01-01-2008, 07:48 PM

Yeah thats pretty good Ron! 7 AFC Championship games and only won what 2 of those and 1 Superbowl? I don't care who they were up against...he couldn't get it done! To be the best you have to beat the best! Marv Levy......great coach.....4 Superbowl births and couldn't win one......that hurts him on the top coaches list just as it hurts Madden. In my opinion! Same with Parcells......can't win the big ones!

Raider Ronnie · 01-01-2008, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Yeah thats pretty good Ron! 7 AFC Championship games and only won what 2 of those and 1 Superbowl? I don't care who they were up against...he couldn't get it done! To be the best you have to beat the best! Marv Levy......great coach.....4 Superbowl births and couldn't win one......that hurts him on the top coaches list just as it hurts Madden. In my opinion! Same with Parcells......can't win the big ones!

So how many wins would this Pats team have against that 70s Steelers team ???
Also, I don't think Knoll was that great of a coach to be on a list.
That defense made him look great !

wrikerjr · 01-01-2008, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Yeah thats pretty good Ron! 7 AFC Championship games and only won what 2 of those and 1 Superbowl? I don't care who they were up against...he couldn't get it done! To be the best you have to beat the best! Marv Levy......great coach.....4 Superbowl births and couldn't win one......that hurts him on the top coaches list just as it hurts Madden. In my opinion! Same with Parcells......can't win the big ones!

Madden won one buddy so how does it hurt him. he is a great coach not on the top 5 but definetly top 10. he also happened to coach against a dynasty that many believe could beat your dynasty, the 70 steelers.

No one can say definetly who would win, because the game is much different now then just 10 years ago nevermind the 70s. 4 championships in 6 years my friend is something of a massive accomplishment. Your NE patriots would have to win back to back again to get 4 in 6. what do you think the odds of that are???

Mike P · 01-01-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

In my opinion! Same with Parcells......can't win the big ones!

Parcells can't win the big ones--are you on drugs?

Are you forgetting the two he won with the Giants, and the one he kept a close and competitive game for your guys, during a stretch when the AFC teams were getting their heads handed to them on a platter--by halftime?

He won his two with a better than average QB, but one who'll never be listed on anyone's top 10 list, in Simms, and a career journeyman named Hoestettler. In the second one, he went in as an underdog and came up with a game plan the controlled the clock and kept Kelly and company on the sideline.

I hate the guy but you have to give him credit where it's due. And don't feed me that crap about how it was really Belichick who was the genius pulling his strings on the sideline--hell, I could have been a defensive coordinator on a team that had LT, Harry Carson, Carl Banks, Jimmy Burt and Leonard Hamilton starting for me.

There have been a lot of great coaches who won Super Bowls with great QBs. Joe Gibbs won them with Doug Williams and Mark Rypien at QB.

And any list of great coaches without Hank Stram on it is an incomplete one.