Jim Rice - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

ThomCat · 01-10-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by striperking70

Kirby Puckett doesn't deserve to be in the hall. Williams and Banks were 10 times better than Rice or Perez. Maybe Perez is in because he was a winner and Rice never won.

Rice did win a few things. One MVP, 3 HR titles, several RBI titles. He did have more hits, 2Bs and 3Bs than the Mick. He also had 4-200 hit seasons, while Mick never reached that plateau and 7-100 RBI seasons to Mick's 4. Surely no one who has a clue about baseball would consider putting Rice in a class with Mantle. But then again, it's hard to believe that anyone familiar with the game would fail to realize and acknowledge the talent Rice displayed and instead portray him as a slub and a loser. The list of players in the HOF that never got the ring is as long as my arm so that point is moot at best. I'm getting the increasing vibe of a bitter Yank fan/Sox hater in our midst.

wrikerjr · 01-10-2008, 03:53 PM

ThomCat,

Did you ever think that maybe if Rice had a championship that he would already be in the hof?

I believe that Rice should be in the hall, but people comparing Rice to Mantle and Banks and Williams.

Do we really need to list the accomplishments of these 3 players vs. Jim Rice?

striperking70 · 01-10-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrikerjr

ThomCat,

Did you ever think that maybe if Rice had a championship that he would already be in the hof?

I believe that Rice should be in the hall, but people comparing Rice to Mantle and Banks and Williams.

Do we really need to list the accomplishments of these 3 players vs. Jim Rice?

If Rice was on a World Series championship team in his career he probably would be in the HOF.

BigFish · 01-10-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by striperking70

If Rice was on a World Series championship team in his career he probably would be in the HOF.

That is a most ridiculous statement.....again you do think winning a championship is what merits inclusion in the HOF! I am pretty much done with this conversation.....SK70 and Wrikerjr....you guys are New Yawkers ain't cha?

Raider Ronnie · 01-10-2008, 05:59 PM

[QUOTE=BigFish;553923]That is a most ridiculous statement.....again you do think winning a championship is what merits inclusion in the HOF!

It's the only reason Joe Namath is in the football hall of fame !!!
His career stats suck but he had a big mouth with his prediction and his team (Buddy Ryan's defense) won the most important super bowl !

striperking70 · 01-10-2008, 07:23 PM

[QUOTE=Raider Ronnie;553939]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

That is a most ridiculous statement.....again you do think winning a championship is what merits inclusion in the HOF!

It's the only reason Joe Namath is in the football hall of fame !!!
His career stats suck but he had a big mouth with his prediction and his team (Buddy Ryan's defense) won the most important super bowl !

Exactly! Joe Namath was very overrated. Actually he really wasn't good just avearge.

Mike P · 01-10-2008, 08:51 PM

[QUOTE=Raider Ronnie;553939]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

That is a most ridiculous statement.....again you do think winning a championship is what merits inclusion in the HOF!

It's the only reason Joe Namath is in the football hall of fame !!!
His career stats suck but he had a big mouth with his prediction and his team (Buddy Ryan's defense) won the most important super bowl !

He also gave the AFL instant credibility and put it on an equal footing with the old guard. Without the Jets' win, and that of the Chiefs the next year (and they were almost as big an underdog to the Vikes as the Jets were to the Colts), it's very unlikely that Pete Rozelle would have convinced the Steelers, Colts and Browns to switch over to the new AFC. You would not have the divisional structure you have today.

Raider Ronnie · 01-10-2008, 09:40 PM

[QUOTE=Mike P;554009]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

He also gave the AFL instant credibility and put it on an equal footing with the old guard. Without the Jets' win, and that of the Chiefs the next year (and they were almost as big an underdog to the Vikes as the Jets were to the Colts), it's very unlikely that Pete Rozelle would have convinced the Steelers, Colts and Browns to switch over to the new AFC. You would not have the divisional structure you have today.

So that made him a hall of famer???

striperking70 · 01-10-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

That is a most ridiculous statement.....again you do think winning a championship is what merits inclusion in the HOF! I am pretty much done with this conversation.....SK70 and Wrikerjr....you guys are New Yawkers ain't cha?

It's a fact. If he won a championship or 2 he would probably be in. I am not saying it's right because I don't think he belongs in either way. Championship or not.

wrikerjr · 01-11-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

That is a most ridiculous statement.....again you do think winning a championship is what merits inclusion in the HOF! I am pretty much done with this conversation.....SK70 and Wrikerjr....you guys are New Yawkers ain't cha?

I am a yankees fan and not afraid to admit it. I do believe that rice deserves to be in the hall, without question. Problem is that you (or others not really sure) compare him to mantle william banks are just crazy or don't really have a clue.

winning championships really does matter in certain instances, it is one of many factors.

If your a power hitter (in the pre-steroid era) and you do not have 500 home runs than you are not automatically in on your numbers, other things weigh in on people's votes. Not saying its correct or fair, just the way it is. Sometimes its championships, sometimes is bieng a clutch player, sometimes if your an ass the voters can be an ass.

BigFish · 01-11-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrikerjr

I am a yankees fan and not afraid to admit it. I do believe that rice deserves to be in the hall, without question. Problem is that you (or others not really sure) compare him to mantle william banks are just crazy or don't really have a clue.

winning championships really does matter in certain instances, it is one of many factors.

If your a power hitter (in the pre-steroid era) and you do not have 500 home runs than you are not automatically in on your numbers, other things weigh in on people's votes. Not saying its correct or fair, just the way it is. Sometimes its championships, sometimes is bieng a clutch player, sometimes if your an ass the voters can be an ass.

Re-read my posts..."I" did not compare Rice to Williams, Banks or especially Mantle.....as I do not think they are comparable stats wise at all! Its apples and watermelons but I do think they all belong in the same fruit stand!

My comments on Williams, Banks was strictly in regards to SK70's comments about if they don't win, they don't belong in the HOF!

wrikerjr · 01-11-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Re-read my posts..."I" did not compare Rice to Williams, Banks or especially Mantle.....as I do not think they are comparable stats wise at all! Its apples and watermelons but I do think they all belong in the same fruit stand!

My comments on Williams, Banks was strictly in regards to SK70's comments about if they don't win, they don't belong in the HOF!

My bad. I agree they all belong in the hall!!!

striperking70 · 01-11-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFish

Re-read my posts..."I" did not compare Rice to Williams, Banks or especially Mantle.....as I do not think they are comparable stats wise at all! Its apples and watermelons but I do think they all belong in the same fruit stand!

My comments on Williams, Banks was strictly in regards to SK70's comments about if they don't win, they don't belong in the HOF!

Don't go putting words in my mouth. I said some people are in because they won. That's just the way it is. I stated Rice doesn't belong in whether he won or not. But if he did win he would probably be in. What don't you understand?

ThomCat · 01-11-2008, 01:24 PM

[QUOTE=wrikerjr;554184]I am a yankees fan and not afraid to admit it. I do believe that rice deserves to be in the hall, without question. Problem is that you (or others not really sure) compare him to mantle william banks are just crazy or don't really have a clue.

You're a YANKEE FAN, get the farque outta here!!! Being a Sox fan myself, I undestand dissapointment. Not making it year after year will cause a bitterness and resentment that has to manifest itself somewhere. It doesn't make one a bad person!!! Okay, Last time, I, for one, never compared Rice to Mantle. Mantle was a much better all around ball player without question. I simply stated that a number of the offensive numbers were similar. As for the top of the all-time list of ballplayers there are only four: Ted Williams (lost 4 prime years to defending his country) Lou Gerig (career cut tragically short), Babe Ruth and Henry Aaron. All the rest are looking up and from a looooong way down. Period, end of story. Peace & Love ............ P.S. I love this %$%$%$%$e!!!

wrikerjr · 01-11-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomCat

You're a YANKEE FAN, get the farque outta here!!!

OK i will leave then.

wrikerjr · 01-11-2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by striperking70

If Rice was on a World Series championship team in his career he probably would be in the HOF.

Agreed, unfortunately it really does matter with voters.

ThomCat · 01-10-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrikerjr

ThomCat,

Did you ever think that maybe if Rice had a championship that he would already be in the hof?

I believe that Rice should be in the hall, but people comparing Rice to Mantle and Banks and Williams.

Do we really need to list the accomplishments of these 3 players vs. Jim Rice?

I thought I had clearly expressed that I didn't put Rice in Mantle's class. Somehow I don't get the connection between a team winning a championship and an individual getting into the HOF. TEAMS win championships in baseball. BTW I don't consider Mantle in the same class as Ted Williams by any stretch either.

striperking70 · 01-10-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomCat

Rice did win a few things. One MVP, 3 HR titles, several RBI titles. He did have more hits, 2Bs and 3Bs than the Mick. He also had 4-200 hit seasons, while Mick never reached that plateau and 7-100 RBI seasons to Mick's 4. Surely no one who has a clue about baseball would consider putting Rice in a class with Mantle. But then again, it's hard to believe that anyone familiar with the game would fail to realize and acknowledge the talent Rice displayed and instead portray him as a slub and a loser. The list of players in the HOF that never got the ring is as long as my arm so that point is moot at best. I'm getting the increasing vibe of a bitter Yank fan/Sox hater in our midst.

You're right Rice had 37 more hits in a 125 more AB's. 150 less Home runs, 400 less runs scored, less RBI's, less stolen bases and a lower slugging percentage. Rice was a very good player , just not a HOFer.