Are the Patriots the best team ever

[wrikerjr]

http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10592795

Good discussion.

[The Dad Fisherman]

I was enjoying the Article until it started with the whole Belichek cheating thing.....that was just an assenine argument

You can't match a team up from 30 or 40 years ago and say they would beat the Pats now. Just the fact that everbody now is Bigger, Faster, and Conditioning and Training is at a higher Level than ever before.

All those teams mentioned were Great in their Day, no Doubts. I was actually a Big fan of the Steelers growing up, but there's no way to say who would beat who. As great as the Steel Curtain defense was, how many 300lb+ Linemen did they come up against?


Greatest team in the 60's - Packers
Greatest team in the 70's - Steelers
Greatest team in the 80's - 49'ers
Greatest team in the 90's - Cowboys
Greatest team in the 00's - Patriots

[BigFish]

Yes.

Alright....lets move on to the next topic since we are all pretty much agreed here!

[wrikerjr]

plus the rules change over the decades, not sure the steelers would not set nfl penalty records in this decade.

I think this will be the last week you hear about the cheating accusations, except for the draft and when BB is up for the hall.

[Saltheart]

They got to win one more game then the answere is a big YES.

[Backbeach Jake]

Yes. Bigger stronger faster smarter. More willing to sacrifice for the good of the team. Precious little showboating, staying focused. A team like this has never existed in the NFL before.

[Raven]

yeah Baby,,,,

[Raider Ronnie]

If they win the super bowl in 2 weeks, greatest season ever.
Greatest team ever, NO WAY !
The defense doesn't ever come close to comparing to the Steelers of the 70s or the 85 Bears.
Anyone who thinks that this offense would be the same if it played in the 1960s & 70s with the rules from then is smoking something

[Mike P]

They will be a yardstick, like all the great teams, in the future. "How would this team do against the 07 Patriots?"

Different rules, different coaching philosophies, in different eras make comparisons difficult. Everyone talks about the 85 Bears. They were a great defense, but would anyone in their right minds pick Jim McMahon over Montana, Young, Manning, Brady---or even Simms? Who were the Bears' wideouts? Who was their tight end? Who played beside Payton in the backfield. Other than Sweetness, it was a forgetable offense. McMahon wa sknow more for his antics than his passing.

IMO the 86 Giants and the 49er teams of Montana were more balanced. Defenses almost the equal of the Bears, and much more better offenses. They also won SBs by lopsided margains. Some years they even finished 14-2, which isn't much worse than the 15-1 Bears.

[good2hook]

ask me on the 4th.

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by Mike P

They were a great defense, but would anyone in their right minds pick Jim McMahon over Montana, Young, Manning, Brady---or even Simms?

Great question, Mike; however did Montana, Young, Manning, Brady---or even Simms come off of the bench, as a back-up, down by 3TD's, on MNF ~no less, and go 4 for 4 with the first three passes being TD's? The first of which was an on the money bomb to Willie Gault.

A cool cat that didn't finish his career strongly, but I will never fogedda bout that off the bench performance, against the Vikings????

No question Brady for my QB .

[fishsmith]

YES!!!

[wrikerjr]

Originally Posted by Strike_King

As far as defenses go,the league is different now. The NFL is a pass happy league now..You've got a better chance of seeing Britney Spears drop 20 pounds and resurrect her career than you do of seeing an under 200 point defense these days..How does anybody think the defenses of old (60's-80's) would fare today the way the league protects the QB? It's getting to the point today where a defender puts a fingernail on the QB and it's a personal foul...

never say never 2000 Ravens 165 pts, little different time but getting any points would be difficult against that d

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by BassDawg

Great question, Mike; however did Montana, Young, Manning, Brady---or even Simms come off of the bench, as a back-up, down by 3TD's, on MNF ~no less, and go 4 for 4 with the first three passes being TD's? The first of which was an on the money bomb to Willie Gault.

A cool cat that didn't finish his career strongly, but I will never fogedda bout that off the bench performance, against the Vikings????

No question Brady for my QB .

Frank Reich did something like that for the Bills in a Playoff game when Kelly got hurt. The Oilers were up almost 30 points at halftime. Does that make him an all time great?

McMahon was a one and done phenom. And he had a defense that consistently put him in great field position in that one great season he had.

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Frank Reich did something like that for the Bills in a Playoff game when Kelly got hurt. The Oilers were up almost 30 points at halftime. Does that make him an all time great?

McMahon was a one and done phenom. And he had a defense that consistently put him in great field position in that one great season he had.

I totally agree that McMahon was a one and done phenom,
but what he did was unequaled. And has yet to be achieved by any of the greats??? He came off of the bench, MNF, and threw 3 straight TD Passes!!

Brady to me is still the GOAT, when/if he pulls of this Path to Perfection thang. Also, who here thinks that he's done? Prolly good for at least two more?

Just think how bad the rest of the country is gonna hate us by then, huh?

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I was enjoying the Article until it started with the whole Belichek cheating thing.....that was just an assenine argument

You can't match a team up from 30 or 40 years ago and say they would beat the Pats now. Just the fact that everbody now is Bigger, Faster, and Conditioning and Training is at a higher Level than ever before.

All those teams mentioned were Great in their Day, no Doubts. I was actually a Big fan of the Steelers growing up, but there's no way to say who would beat who. As great as the Steel Curtain defense was, how many 300lb+ Linemen did they come up against?


Greatest team in the 60's - Packers
Greatest team in the 70's - Steelers
Greatest team in the 80's - 49'ers
Greatest team in the 90's - Cowboys
Greatest team in the 00's - Patriots

EXCELLENT, The Dad!

While i do agree that the best way to recognize GREATNESS in the NFL
is within each dynasty, and by their respective decades, doesn't 4 Lombardi's AND 19-0:
A.) place them in the rarified air of Bradshaw's Steelers, and Montana's Niners?
B.) excepting that neither one of those teams EVER went undefeated, as we all know.

Bradshaw repeated 2 times, and holds 2 SB MVP's.
Montana repeated 1 time, and holds 3 SB MVP's.

Trying to remain objective here, not greedy, in my view if Brady wins this one of '08 he will be equal to the Greatness of #16 and #12; with one major proviso, commanding the single best season this game has ever seen accredited to his brilliant stats!!! This would give him the slight edge, not accounting for who gets this year's MVP (Moss, Stallworth, Maroney, etc). If he does add a 3rd SB MVP to his accomplishments that would also factor in.

The future holds promises of Greatness, as well. If this pace continues (ie., 1 or 2 more SB wins, another repeat, some more MVP's) from the top of THE franchise to the bottom, then we are in store for a TRULY prolific ride into a Level of Supremacy that only the Yanks, the Habs, and the Celts can identify with.

Ahhhhhh yes, how sweeeeet the smell of victory and how calloused the hands of humility; without which,
True Champions cannot bear their cherished responsibility, nor divine their elusive glory.

[riverrat55]

They are the BEST team of this era(2000's)!!!
BEST team EVER???
Hard to say!!!
Different times and different rules for the game!!!

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by BassDawg

I totally agree that McMahon was a one and done phenom,
but what he did was unequaled. And has yet to be achieved by any of the greats??? He came off of the bench, MNF, and threw 3 straight TD Passes!!

Reich was a career back-up. He probably didn't take a snap all that season. He came into a playoff game--a freaking playoff game with his team behind 31-3. 4 TDs down. He put up 38 points mostly in the second half to lead the Bills to the biggest postseason comeback ever. Against a team led by Warren Moon. And I guarantee you that he didn't do that by handing off to Thurman Thomas 30+ times.

And you think that McMahon's feat was "unequaled" because he did that in a stupid regular season MNF game?

[BassDawg]

Mike, I agree with you...............eaze up.
What Reich did was good, great if you must .

I'm just saying that what McMahon did sort of sticks out to me
because he threw 4 consecutive passes, completed them, the first two were for a TD, the third wasn't, and then the fourth pass went for a TD as time was running out, I think?? As a single feat of accomplishment i just think that it is noteworthy. I don't recall any other QB doing that, in the history of the NFL. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure no one else has pulled that off to win a game.

Not trying to stir the pot, bro.

[Raider Ronnie]

Everyone must remember the cheap shot body slam Charles Martin (green Bay Packers) put on Mcmahon during a game after he threw an interception.
What do ya think would happen if he or someone did something like that to Tom Brady today ?
Surely would be thrown out of the league for ever in the least!
instead of a small suspension !

[ProfessorM]

not yet

[BassDawg]

Definitely a different game nowadays.

But I do think that Brady is very good at avoiding the sack and tougher than most give him credit for.

Just because he doesn't get HIT, doesn't mean that he couldn't take a big HIT; then again, why would I want him to? Doesn't make him a better QB because he can take a hit. It does allow QB's to play longer while they are at the tops of their games, and that has been a good thing. Still................

I AGREE, and think that we've gone from one extreme to the other. Hopefully the pendulum will swing back before long and allow clean FOOTBALL HITS to the QB, not KILL the QB LT/Theismann types of hits.

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Strike_King

That would happen regardless of what QB it was.It's getting to the point where,in today's NFL,QB's aren't going to have to wear pads anymore. I'm not saying that defenders should be able to blast the QB after he releases (like the old days),but it is football.And don't even get me started on the BS pass interference calls that happen weekly throughout the NFL..The league favors the offense way too much these days..

Even though I'm not a Pats fan, that 5K fine this week to Wilfork
was bull%$%$%$%$!

[wrikerjr]

why did wilfork get fined the $5K, did i miss something other than the facemask penalty?

[afterhours]

i think it was for the facemask penalty...

[boot man]

Different teams, different eras, but no team has gone 19-0 and every team plays under the same rules each year.

To not have one off game in a season is admirable. (and the Dolphins barely played anyone with a winning record when they pulled the feat).

[The Dad Fisherman]

...

[Raven]

lol

[BassDawg]

Nicely DONE, Raven!!!

[Raven]

but the credit goes to KEVIN

AKA The Dad Fisherman