New On The Water tournament rules

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

From the OTW rules;
All entrants must register in either the BOAT, SHORE or YOUTH division when signing up for the tournament. For the duration of the tournament, an entrant can only weigh in fish for the division in which he/she is registered.

I think this precludes an angler from participating in both divisions...

Ross, I realize that those are the present rules. I was proposing letting people enter both if they set up separate shore and boat divisions. Trying to tweak a "handicap" to balance the scale is just an exercise in futility, IMO. The perfect tournament hasn't been invented yet. You'll always be able to look at any set of rules and say, "I think that XXXX would be better". Except that OTW is tinkering with it trying to get that elusive "perfection". This is the third year of OTW and the third year they've had entirely different rules. Most people feel that separate boat and shore divisions would have been the right way to go from the start. That would eliminate trying to calculate what a fair handicap for shorebound anglers would be. Even though sb-com benefitted from it, saying that a shore caught fish is worth 30% more weight than a boat fish is ridiculous.

Up until 1984, the MV Derby didn't have boat and shore divisions for bass, and if you look at the history, shore guys won as often, if not more often, than boaters. Guys like #^&#^&#^&#^& Hathaway, Ralph Grant, Stevie Morris, and the Mad Russian, DeSomov, were surfcasters.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Ross, I realize that those are the present rules. I was proposing letting people enter both if they set up separate shore and boat divisions. Trying to tweak a "handicap" to balance the scale is just an exercise in futility, IMO. The perfect tournament hasn't been invented yet. You'll always be able to look at any set of rules and say, "I think that XXXX would be better". Except that OTW is tinkering with it trying to get that elusive "perfection". This is the third year of OTW and the third year they've had entirely different rules. Most people feel that separate boat and shore divisions would have been the right way to go from the start. That would eliminate trying to calculate what a fair handicap for shorebound anglers would be. Even though sb-com benefitted from it, saying that a shore caught fish is worth 30% more weight than a boat fish is ridiculous.

Up until 1984, the MV Derby didn't have boat and shore divisions for bass, and if you look at the history, shore guys won as often, if not more often, than boaters. Guys like #^&#^&#^&#^& Hathaway, Ralph Grant, Stevie Morris, and the Mad Russian, DeSomov, were surfcasters.

Then I misunderstood you, Mike, and stand corrected. I had thought you meant that an angler could enter in both divisions. Your proposal of allowing this, is a good one.

Under the current system, I will be entering as a boat angler. In the event that I get a worthy fish from the surf, I will have to enter it as a boat fish......

[Back Beach]

I still disagree with the point some of you are making. There are separate boat and surf categories, are there not?
Prizes are awarded for each division by week, month, and angler of the year for both surf and boat.
Correct me, but it sounds like you guys are contesting the fairness of the team totals, which I think are very fair. You do need some kind of shore/boat handicap. Remember each year pans out differently too with regard to what's available and which club benefits the most. The so called "best" club won't win every year due to changes in fish availability in their waters. With the exception of S-B, most of the clubs range is very small, thus opportunties they have depend on what's available in their local waters.

With either case the losers will always cry foul and say it wasn't fair, which is B.S. to me. Get in there and fight for the cup for god's sake!

Its not supposed to be easy.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

I still disagree with the point some of you are making. There are separate boat and surf categories, are there not?
Prizes are awarded for each division by week, month, and angler of the year for both surf and boat.
Correct me, but it sounds like you guys are contesting the fairness of the team totals, which I think are very fair. You do need some kind of shore/boat handicap. Remember each year pans out differently too with regard to what's available and which club benefits the most. The so called "best" club won't win every year due to changes in fish availability in their waters. With the exception of S-B, most of the clubs range is very small, thus opportunties they have depend on what's available in their local waters.

With either case the losers will always cry foul and say it wasn't fair, which is B.S. to me. Get in there and fight for the cup for god's sake!

Its not supposed to be easy.

Mike,I don't see where anyone is claiming they want it to be easier.This isn't sour grapes, rather a thread you chose to participate in discussing the rule changes for the UPCOMING Cup.There is no easy answer here.Like you say,certain teams have inherent advantages due to the number of anglers as well as being more spread out. Nothing wrong with this type of advantage IMO.Maybe proposing 5 boat fish and 5 surf fish per team would be fair.Who knows?Maybe paying a registration fee and using the honor system as to whether it was boat or surf caught would be a more adult way to operate. Perhaps introducing a Ladies division for adult and junior anglers may be a progressive idea.I think you are correct to an extent;no matter what the handicap index is someone will gripe.I don't remember the numbers but I think by August 1st last year S-B had around 490 pounds using the handicap system.That is 10 ,49 pound fish.Tournament was over already.I can certainly see why you would consider it to be very fair.Each year the bait and migratory habits of the fish will change thus giving a certain division a competetive edge which will result in the index being called into question.Of course there are separate categories for the prizes as you state and this is solely to accomadate the sponsors.However I can't think of a single legitimate reason for combining the two categories for the Cup.If there are other fishing (not golf)tournaments presently run using the handicap system please enlighten me.BTW, my numbers from shore last year dwarfed my boat numbers.Thanks in part to you.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

August 1st last year S-B had around 490 pounds using the handicap system.That is 10 ,49 pound fish.Tournament was over already.I can certainly see why you would consider it to be very fair.

Chris,

The 1.3 for a surf fish is way too much IMO. Maybe I didn't clearly state that. The 1.2, perhaps even 1.15 would be better, which it looks like they are doing for 2008. I am in total agreement with lowering the ratio. In 2006 it was lopsided in favor of the boat clubs due to no conversion ratio for the surf guys.
As far as combining surf and boat for the teams, it makes perfect sense to me to do that becuase its just the cup. No big prizes awarded, its for fun, and many clubs feature both surf and boat anglers. They should be able to compete together. Utilizing a handicap is the most effective way to allow this to happen. Its like an ABCD golf tournament. The handicap comes into play as it allows participants from different capabilities to play together on an even field.
Can't wait for the next installment of those jamaican jerk chicken wings. I'm up every night thinking about them.