Taxes

[RIJIMMY]

whoa, are these figures accurate?
If so, that would mean when ol' Hil and Barak say that all GWB did was put more money back to the rich, would be a 100%...LIE? Could it be? Why would they do that?
So, maybe I am taking a leap here, but if they reverse the tax cuts, could it acually be possible that it would HURT the middle class? Geez, it may actually HURT the people who work and pay taxes, maybe? But its all good, we'll have universal health care, so I can wait in line behind the kids that dropped out of high school and sit around and smoke dope all day, while I work my arse off. Thats fair, we're all equal.

[Joe]

I thought the current top rate for wage-earners taxes was 28% - that formula shows 24%

[Joe]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

whoa, are these figures accurate?
If so, that would mean when ol' Hil and Barak say that all GWB did was put more money back to the rich, would be a 100%...LIE? Could it be? Why would they do that?
So, maybe I am taking a leap here, but if they reverse the tax cuts, could it acually be possible that it would HURT the middle class? Geez, it may actually HURT the people who work and pay taxes, maybe? But its all good, we'll have universal health care, so I can wait in line behind the kids that dropped out of high school and sit around and smoke dope all day, while I work my arse off. Thats fair, we're all equal.

The trust-fund babies who never worked a day in their lives and get their money from the trust set up by great-grandpa - they only have to pay 15%. The top-wage earners (people who worked hard and stuff) are subsidizing the tax burden for the generational rich - this is what Warren Buffet is referring to when he talks about the tax code being favorable to the ruling class.

[fishbones]

The real problem with tax dollars is where they are being spent. More money than ever is going towards "assistance" programs such as welfare, unemployment, etc..... Ebens point about creating jobs is good, but there are jobs out there for a lot of people. Unfortunately, they find it easier not to work and to stay at home having children who's food, diapers, etc... are being paid for by working stiffs. These children are then raised to think this way of life is "normal" and perpetuate the problem. Welfare, unemployment, food stamps, etc... were all created with the best intentions. To help people get back on their feet. But, there are people who use it as a way of life and are draining tax dollars in the process. I'd like to see new programs put in place to force people to develop job readiness skill and get back to work to support themselves. If they can get people (who are able to work) off government assistance, the money could be spent in other areas. They can raise or lower tax rates all they want, but where the money is spent is what matters most.

[PaulS]

Can you get welfare for your whole life? If you don't work, how can you get unemployment and how long does it last?

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Can you get welfare for your whole life? If you don't work, how can you get unemployment and how long does it last?

With welfare benefits, you have to re-apply periodically. But, they won't cut off benefits after a certain amount of time. Unemployment is a maximum of 26 weeks per calendar year, but you have to work an amount of time equal to the amount of time you collect benefits. If someone works for half a year, they can collect for the rest of the year. So, many people take minimum wage jobs and work for 3 to 6 months, then "get let go" and collect for the next 3 to 6 months. Welfare is more of a drain on taxes because people can stay on it for as long as they desire.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by fishbones

The real problem with tax dollars is where they are being spent. More money than ever is going towards "assistance" programs such as welfare, unemployment, etc..... Ebens point about creating jobs is good, but there are jobs out there for a lot of people. Unfortunately, they find it easier not to work and to stay at home having children who's food, diapers, etc... are being paid for by working stiffs. These children are then raised to think this way of life is "normal" and perpetuate the problem. Welfare, unemployment, food stamps, etc... were all created with the best intentions. To help people get back on their feet. But, there are people who use it as a way of life and are draining tax dollars in the process. I'd like to see new programs put in place to force people to develop job readiness skill and get back to work to support themselves. If they can get people (who are able to work) off government assistance, the money could be spent in other areas.

For the last 50 years, since the Watts and Newark riots, the politicians have thrown just enough money at the poor to keep them where they are with a feeling of entitlement and not much else except to buy themselves votes. Imho more $$ won't do it.

The schools and teachers are already there to prepare the kids to become educated and get jobs, but the kids need soild family backing by their families to motivate them to go to school, do their homework and succeed.
Without that kind of guidance nothing will work, just the same old cycle of ,little discipline, lack of motivation and a feeling of hopelessnes.

Unfortunately, money can't buy good values ,morals and families which are the things needed to move things forward imho.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by justplugit

For the last 50 years, since the Watts and Newark riots, the politicians have thrown just enough money at the poor to keep them where they are with a feeling of entitlement and not much else except to buy themselves votes. Imho more $$ won't do it.

The schools and teachers are already there to prepare the kids to become educated and get jobs, but the kids need soild family backing by their families to motivate them to go to school, do their homework and succeed.
Without that kind of guidance nothing will work, just the same old cycle of ,little discipline, lack of motivation and a feeling of hopelessnes.

Unfortunately, money can't buy good values ,morals and families which are the things needed to move things forward imho.

I agree 100%. I meant that the money coming in now should be more wisely spent on programs to get people off of welfare, unemployment, etc..., not adding more money for new programs. It's become a way of life and a lot of people can't (or won't) break the cycle. I place a lot of blame on the politicians because they keep it going. They learned long ago to dangle the programs in front of the people to keep the votes coming their way. I work in a really bad neighborhood and every day I see the results of social programs becoming a lifestyle, as opposed to a crutch to help people when they need to get back on their feet.

[Joe]

Dats your federal budget pie chart....

"Income Security" that's the money the goverment kicks in when a corporation (or union) can no longer pay the people who earned a pension because they went under or they can't afford it. Being the only super power is very costly..

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by justplugit

For the last 50 years, since the Watts and Newark riots, the politicians have thrown just enough money at the poor to keep them where they are with a feeling of entitlement and not much else except to buy themselves votes. Imho more $$ won't do it.

The schools and teachers are already there to prepare the kids to become educated and get jobs, but the kids need soild family backing by their families to motivate them to go to school, do their homework and succeed.
Without that kind of guidance nothing will work, just the same old cycle of ,little discipline, lack of motivation and a feeling of hopelessnes.

Unfortunately, money can't buy good values ,morals and families which are the things needed to move things forward imho.

Well said

[179]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

whoa, are these figures accurate?
If so, that would mean when ol' Hil and Barak say that all GWB did was put more money back to the rich, would be a 100%...LIE? Could it be? Why would they do that?
So, maybe I am taking a leap here, but if they reverse the tax cuts, could it acually be possible that it would HURT the middle class? Geez, it may actually HURT the people who work and pay taxes, maybe? But its all good, we'll have universal health care, so I can wait in line behind the kids that dropped out of high school and sit around and smoke dope all day, while I work my arse off. Thats fair, we're all equal.

So 30k and 50k are now considered the "Rich" by the left and should be punished by paying more taxes? Interesting

[spence]

I just had this email passed along to me by my father so I did some checking and found that the Tax Foundation site being referenced refutes the numbers of the unknown author...

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/22958.html

-spence

[mosholu]

Besides the repeal of the tax cuts Obama has called for the lifting of the cap on how much of your income is eligible to pay for social security. This will hurt a lot of middle class families because that extra 2% is generally their discretionary income and brings down their quality of life. Do we have to do it? I am not sure. I think there are other things we can do but I question if we have the resolve for dealing with pork. I would propose that there be some limits on how much you can leave to your estate. I do not know where you set the marker. I am talking about millions but when you read how much executive pay has skyrocketed and how much the taxpayer gets stuck with the short stick (Bear Stearns, the income security Joe talked about above) there should be some claw back. These people made this money in part through the benefits and protections of this country and when their time is done they can well take care of their family but the rest should go back to the government. I see no reason to permanently endow a leisure class in this country when so many are finding times hard. I also think there should be a super tax paid on amounts above say 10 million. It is not going to balance the budget but it does send a message that the ones that truly benefit from this system (and their own work) should contribute more. Flat tax would be nice as well but that enough for one post.

[wheresmy50]

It's widely known, or it should be, that taxes under Bush are some of the lowest ever. While there are legitimate beefs with Bush's economic policy, don't look to taxes to find them.

My opinion is the way to control the deficit is by controlling spending, not taxes. This is where I feel Bush deserves the most criticism, for being way too liberal regarding social spending. Unfortunately I don't think this is going to improve over the next 4-8 years unless all of the current candidates quit now and someone else enters the race. Obviously McCain would be predisposed to spend less, but he's by no means a "Reagan" republican.

The fact of the matter is overall taxes (local, state, sales, etc) are so high because of government waste, corruption, and misuse. Short of building a time machine, I don't think we'll ever change that. They're like anacondas, they only take.

It's interesting to travel around the country and see areas with vastly different levels of state and local taxes, and the relative differences. For instance, some states with high taxes have good roads and schools, but some are worse than states with very low tax rates.

Nebe - Drug test? How about at least checking the social security number to make sure they're citicens. I know for a fact that in my area people get certain social services without any citicenship verification. We all pay for that nonsense.