You just can say it,can you media?

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by Raven

great point because the Don Imus show is/was all about comedy
and nappy headed ho was meant as a comedy comment
and it wasn't thought of in advance like the reverends sermon was...

yet he was labeled a racist and it cost him big time effectively ending his televison career or show and he helps kids with cancer at his ranch...
all the while that reference to ho's and nappy headed people are used daily on the airwaves in popular song...

not really fair...at all... so where's Al Sharpton now

First off I believe Imus was canned because those particular comments were the straw the broke the camel's back in a series of comments. The comments regarding hos was directed at a particular group of women on a team and not a generic reference in a song (although to me both are equally wrong). I think and what Obama was saying in his speech today is that there is good and bad in everyone and you can not judge people by a soundbite etc. As you point out Imus has done some good things for people in his career. Obama says that he has known the Rev. for 20 odd years and knows of a lot of good that he has done even if he disagrees with some of the things he says. He said he was bothered the same way about the Rev. as he was when his white grandmother would use a racial reference. In someways you are each making the same argument about a person you believe is a mix of good and bad, basically human. What I thought was positive about his speech was he was not trying to make the issue go away but set out some basic points that both whites and blacks will have to address if we want to move forward on race issues. It was the first time in a long time I heard a politician come out and just state the case with no gloss or bs. He may not win but it was a pretty brave thing to do.

btw I do not buy the argument that Imus' comment was not premeditated. If he had said something in anger that would be one thing. He was trying to push people's buttons in repeating what the other guy said and unfortunately for his career pushed a few too many.

[Skip N]

I'm starting to realize why Michelle Obama made the commets she made about not being proud of America until recently, she must be listening to the nut job Rev. I'm seeing a connection here....

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by mosholu

First off I believe Imus was canned because those particular comments were the straw the broke the camel's back in a series of comments. The comments regarding hos was directed at a particular group of women on a team and not a generic reference in a song (although to me both are equally wrong). I think and what Obama was saying in his speech today is that there is good and bad in everyone and you can not judge people by a soundbite etc. As you point out Imus has done some good things for people in his career. Obama says that he has known the Rev. for 20 odd years and knows of a lot of good that he has done even if he disagrees with some of the things he says. He said he was bothered the same way about the Rev. as he was when his white grandmother would use a racial reference. In someways you are each making the same argument about a person you believe is a mix of good and bad, basically human. What I thought was positive about his speech was he was not trying to make the issue go away but set out some basic points that both whites and blacks will have to address if we want to move forward on race issues. It was the first time in a long time I heard a politician come out and just state the case with no gloss or bs. He may not win but it was a pretty brave thing to do.

btw I do not buy the argument that Imus' comment was not premeditated. If he had said something in anger that would be one thing. He was trying to push people's buttons in repeating what the other guy said and unfortunately for his career pushed a few too many.

He made the speech because he had too. This speech was immediately scheduled once his advisors realized that conservative pundits were not going to let this die. He didn't do the brave thing, he did the smart thing. The brave thing would have been to stand in front of that racist pig years ago and tell him unless he can open his mind and embrace HOPE and CHANGE, then he was going to take his family and his tens of thousands of dollars in donation and find somebody that will.

The ironic thing about this is that the liberals are caught up in defending a man of the cloth and praising the congregation and the conservatives are attacking the man of the cloth and trying to divide the congregation. NOW I have seen it all.

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by Bronko

He made the speech because he had too. This speech was immediately scheduled once his advisors realized that conservative pundits were not going to let this die. He didn't do the brave thing, he did the smart thing. The brave thing would have been to stand in front of that racist pig years ago and tell him unless he can open his mind and embrace HOPE and CHANGE, then he was going to take his family and his tens of thousands of dollars in donation and find somebody that will.

The ironic thing about this is that the liberals are caught up in defending a man of the cloth and praising the congregation and the conservatives are attacking the man of the cloth and trying to divide the congregation. NOW I have seen it all.

Fair point - he had to make the speech because Hillary and the conservative pundits were hitting him petty hard on this. Passing on fourth and fifty is not so brave if you have no other choice. However he took the issue head on and did not go for the easy way out of saying I will never talk to this guy etc. Instead he spoke honestly about the concerns of both blacks and whites and did not try to gloss over the issues with generalities or feel good statements.
Leaving your church I think is a pretty big step and what Obama said was he knows a lot about this guy and he has done a lot of good for his parish. I can not argue with that one way or another. I do know that As a Catholic I have serious disagreements about what the Church has done with respect to certain issues outside the realm of religion. However I have not left the church because I believe you can separate the religious dogma from the actions of the organized body. I am not sure yet if I would vote for Obama but i think today showed me a lot about his willingness to take on one of the difficult issues that is facing this country.
Last point is before you judge Obama harshly for his association with Rev. Wright how upset were you when President Bush and former President Reagan spoke and gave their support to Bob Jones University a school that makes inter-racial dating grounds for to be expelled?

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by mosholu

Fair point - he had to make the speech because Hillary and the conservative pundits were hitting him petty hard on this. Passing on fourth and fifty is not so brave if you have no other choice. However he took the issue head on and did not go for the easy way out of saying I will never talk to this guy etc. Instead he spoke honestly about the concerns of both blacks and whites and did not try to gloss over the issues with generalities or feel good statements.
Leaving your church I think is a pretty big step and what Obama said was he knows a lot about this guy and he has done a lot of good for his parish. I can not argue with that one way or another. I do know that As a Catholic I have serious disagreements about what the Church has done with respect to certain issues outside the realm of religion. However I have not left the church because I believe you can separate the religious dogma from the actions of the organized body. I am not sure yet if I would vote for Obama but i think today showed me a lot about his willingness to take on one of the difficult issues that is facing this country.
Last point is before you judge Obama harshly for his association with Rev. Wright how upset were you when President Bush and former President Reagan spoke and gave their support to Bob Jones University a school that makes inter-racial dating grounds for to be expelled?

I'll pull an Obama. I'll go back and do some research on all the good that Bob Jones did in his life. Once I find enough, I will then counter your valid point with Jones' prior acts of charity and compassion.