Embarassing

[EarnedStripes44]

you know what slaves did when the constitutional convention failed them the first time. Most of them turned to the bible, thereby embracing subservience, servitude and complacency. Those that didnt cling to there religion while the planter class kept them in chains turned to guns. That is exactly what people do when the government fails them. Now the present state of the american proleteriat in no way compares to that of the american slave, but just ride through a poor community, be it black, white or latino. You will see dopedealers, armed stick up kids and churches. Those that dont bide there time in church, pray to the P&N, the pipe and needle. The others religious traditions are rooted in swigs from 40oz's of old english 800, zima, MD 20/20 among other spirits. I promise you, if things keep up, this will all be coming to a neighborhood near you if it already hasnt.

[scottw]

ENLIGHTENED? haaaaaaaaa I love it when someone refers to themselves as enlightened ........ewwww.. you are sooo special and smart too, you must look in the mirror and just gaze at yourself admiringly every morning...tell me, when you become ENLIGHTENED do they take away your sense of humor, because I've noticed that the two rarely co-exist...


ENLIGHTENED is sufficient to tell me all I need to know, how do you get ENLIGHTENED? Do you have to drink something for that, Kool Aid maybe, probably RED KOOL AID?...I guess if you expect the government to provide everything for you, then you should also expect to be failed, it's a choice you know or maybe you don't... I think I erred when I mentioned the interview with Amadenijad, I think that was actually Dianne Sawyer licking his boots, sorry Leslie if you are reading this, and then Dan Rather swapping spit with Saddam Hussein, that was priceless...COURAGE...my children will be fine, what you propose is more of exactly what has caused all of the ills that you speak of, but the left never examines the results of their crappy socialist programs, just claim that they are simply underfunded and need to get bigger...the only things that get bigger are the beaurocracies and the suffering for those that "depend" on them...but without a mass dependency on government programs there wouldn't be much of a reason to vote for the dems...so sign em' up!!!

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by scottw

ENLIGHTENED? haaaaaaaaa I love it when someone refers to themselves as enlightened ........ewwww.. you are sooo special and smart too, you must look in the mirror and just gaze at yourself admiringly every morning...tell me, when you become ENLIGHTENED do they take away your sense of humor, because I've noticed that the two rarely co-exist...


ENLIGHTENED is sufficient to tell me all I need to know, how do you get ENLIGHTENED? Do you have to drink something for that, Kool Aid maybe, probably RED KOOL AID?...I guess if you expect the government to provide everything for you, then you should also expect to be failed, it's a choice you know or maybe you don't... I think I erred when I mentioned the interview with Amadenijad, I think that was actually Dianne Sawyer licking his boots, sorry Leslie if you are reading this, and then Dan Rather swapping spit with Saddam Hussein, that was priceless...COURAGE...my children will be fine, what you propose is more of exactly what has caused all of the ills that you speak of, but the left never examines the results of their crappy socialist programs, just claim that they are simply underfunded and need to get bigger...the only things that get bigger are the beaurocracies and the suffering for those that "depend" on them...but without a mass dependency on government programs there wouldn't be much of a reason to vote for the dems...so sign em' up!!!

to become enlightened, you just have to read. Both sides of the argument too. Objectivity is paramount.

As far bureaucracy and its dependents, tell that to Bear Stearns. The Federal Reserve Bank provided a 28 billion something life vest. Sounds like dependents suffering to me. What did you get, a 500 dollar rebate check. I bet it cost 50 dollars to fill your car wit gas. That'll get you through 10 weeks.

We have mixed economy for a reason Scott. Without regulation, capitalism will degenerate into its cancerous stage. Look at the mortgage industry and energy, heavily deregulated under Pube administrations, the resul; price fixing and monopolies and the like and subsequent market collapse. Your being bamboozled. If I drink red kool aid, your drinking something thick and brown and its is not Mocha.

[scottw]

must be great to be enlightened and know it all, the Press Club claims that it was not a Clinton operative that set it up, and I'm sure you'll applaud Clinton for any tactics that she uses against the repubs. , so you're saying poor ole' Obama is just an innocent victim of a devious plot?? that's the problem with you enlightened individuals, you way overthink things, did Hillary's operative write the Rev's speech too, I think they were exactly the same things he's been saying all along, just looped over and over like he says, Obama has been defending him for weeks and suddenly he's gone too far saying exactly what he's always said???...pretty funny, oh, well...high 5's all around at Clinton headquarters, Bill's lighting up a big fat Monicanudo cigar right about now with visions of naked interns dancing in his head...

[scottw]

[QUOTE=EarnedStripes44;586033]to become enlightened, you just have to read. Both sides of the argument too. Objectivity is paramount.

I just read that again, that is great because I thought maybe there was some ceremony or something, virgin sacrafice, out of body experience, trip to the desert...it's that simple huh? I'm in, guess I'll have to learn to read though

wait a minute.....you aren't suggesting that you are in any way objective, are you 44? Cause, you've written a whole lot and I don't see you grasping both sides of anything

[spence]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

We have mixed economy for a reason Scott. Without regulation, capitalism will degenerate into its cancerous stage. Look at the mortgage industry and energy, heavily deregulated under Pube administrations, the resul; price fixing and monopolies and the like and subsequent market collapse. Your being bamboozled. If I drink red kool aid, your drinking something thick and brown and its is not Mocha.

Sorry, I'm on the road all week and just can't afford the time to keep stringing Scott along

But this seems to be a fundamendal issue here. Some (and not a Liberal some mind you) are more willing than others to realize the world can't be seen in black and white terms.

Our economy is not a "free market" but rather a "regulated market". Wealth redistribution isn't a Liberal evil but rather a necessity that's supported the middle class for over half a century via a progressive tax system and formed the structure for a consumer driven society.

It's like the pundits have whipped people into a frenzy where by anything not focused on some Conservative or Liberal "brand ideal" can't be a good thing because it's not on the critical path to nirvanna, all the time knowing themselves that their mantras are the result of ego and advertisement revenues rather than pragmatic and learned thought. While there may be wisdom in their words, it's not a playbook for life and certianly not something you could base a successful society around alone.

Any good engineer knows you make something better by taking it to the extreme to see where it breaks, and as such there are really no conservative or liberal ideas that would work in their pure forms.

Yet our leadership, to appease a base, pretends to behave as thought this is true to serve not you or me but ultimately the corporate machine.

Enlightenment is a relative term and in this information age it can be difficult to know how good your data is, but I'd still rather take some enlightenment over none.

The simple fact is, making the effort to understand or even appreciate a viewpoint that's not your own is a very liberal thing, and a very good thing. In some cases it might help you know your enemy, and in others it may give you better appreciation for another perspective on life.

God forbid it indicates your %$%$%$%$ does indeed stink. If so perhaps you should listen to your body and change your diet.

-spence

[Bill L]

The thing about Wright is that when he states and amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS, when he suggests Minister Farrakhan somehow represents one of the greatest voices of the 20th and 21st centuries, when he equates the United State's wartime efforts with terrorism, there are no excuses. I dont need to hear any more or research his sermons to decide I dont like the guy.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Sorry, I'm on the road all week and just can't afford the time to keep stringing Scott along

But this seems to be a fundamendal issue here. Some (and not a Liberal some mind you) are more willing than others to realize the world can't be seen in black and white terms.

Our economy is not a "free market" but rather a "regulated market". Wealth redistribution isn't a Liberal evil but rather a necessity that's supported the middle class for over half a century via a progressive tax system and formed the structure for a consumer driven society.

It's like the pundits have whipped people into a frenzy where by anything not focused on some Conservative or Liberal "brand ideal" can't be a good thing because it's not on the critical path to nirvanna, all the time knowing themselves that their mantras are the result of ego and advertisement revenues rather than pragmatic and learned thought. While there may be wisdom in their words, it's not a playbook for life and certianly not something you could base a successful society around alone.

Any good engineer knows you make something better by taking it to the extreme to see where it breaks, and as such there are really no conservative or liberal ideas that would work in their pure forms.

Yet our leadership, to appease a base, pretends to behave as thought this is true to serve not you or me but ultimately the corporate machine.

Enlightenment is a relative term and in this information age it can be difficult to know how good your data is, but I'd still rather take some enlightenment over none.

The simple fact is, making the effort to understand or even appreciate a viewpoint that's not your own is a very liberal thing, and a very good thing. In some cases it might help you know your enemy, and in others it may give you better appreciation for another perspective on life.

God forbid it indicates your %$%$%$%$ does indeed stink. If so perhaps you should listen to your body and change your diet.

-spence

when all else fails...dazzle them with arrogant condecension

enlightenment= narciscistic delusion

black/white right/wrong truth/lies
I perfer absolutes,

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

I perfer absolutes,

That's pretty clear. So does President Bush, and look were it's taking this country of ours.

And I think you just reinforced my point.

-spence

[Bronko]

Scott W, I like the cut of your jib!

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

That's pretty clear. So does President Bush, and look were it's taking this country of ours.

And I think you just reinforced my point.

-spence

Thank you.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

you know what slaves did when the constitutional convention failed them the first time. Most of them turned to the bible, thereby embracing subservience, servitude and complacency. Those that didnt cling to there religion while the planter class kept them in chains turned to guns. That is exactly what people do when the government fails them. Now the present state of the american proleteriat in no way compares to that of the american slave, but just ride through a poor community, be it black, white or latino. You will see dopedealers, armed stick up kids and churches. Those that dont bide there time in church, pray to the P&N, the pipe and needle. The others religious traditions are rooted in swigs from 40oz's of old english 800, zima, MD 20/20 among other spirits. I promise you, if things keep up, this will all be coming to a neighborhood near you if it already hasnt.

I think your making excuses for unlawful abhorent behavior that even the poor members of the community don't make. Coloring too many people with the same broad brush by giving or making excuses for thier behavior only shows that you may even condone the poor peoples so-called desperate behavior as a means to a quicker end (some went to the bible some took to thier guns). Stop blaming anyone of us for slavery that our forebearers particpated in. You're much more condescending to the poor people than we are.

Don't for one minute think that none of us do not understand anyones plight in America. Even the media yesterday publicly ridiculed some of the statements Reverend Wright made after giving his initial presentation at a press club speech. It is his right however to say what he wants. I may not embrace it, but I'll defend his right to say whatever he'd like.

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

I think your making excuses for unlawful abhorent behavior that even the poor members of the community don't make. Coloring too many people with the same broad brush by giving or making excuses for thier behavior only shows that you may even condone the poor peoples so-called desperate behavior as a means to a quicker end (some went to the bible some took to thier guns). Stop blaming anyone of us for slavery that our forebearers particpated in. You're much more condescending to the poor people than we are.

Don't think for one minute that none of us do not understand anyones plight in America. Even the media yesterday publicly ridiculed some of the statements Reverend Wright made after giving his initial presentation at a press club speech. It is his right however to say what he wants. I may not embrace it, but I'll defend his right to say whatever he'd like.

You do not understand what oppression is when you are poor and black. It has nothing to do with being condescending. The travesty hear is dismissing my statement as a broad generalization of poor communities. There are good people in the ghetto, no doubt about it, but religion in many circumstances, has a medicating effect and nurtures complacency, good and bad. As does alcohol and drugs, good people and bad. There is a liquor for every traffic light on every corner in South Washington DC. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Tell me why unemployment in the poor black communities of southside of chicago is upwards of 50 percent... what else are people to do when there are no jobs. There are more drug dealers than are street corners which may explain 300+ caskets a year in North Philadelphia. I think your more out of touch than I am. Moving a couple of eightballs a weekend consistently is the equivalent of 30,000 dollars a year. Sounds better than the GAP, oh..but thats right, corporate lay offs and outsourcing our the new business models.

Well maybe you are not out of touch, it may very well be that you understand, but the tone of your response is at the very least an apathetic point of view. So I am to assume you dont care, neither does the government. Sure there are good people in ghetto, but is it fair for them to work hard for nothing. For their children to turn to crime and drugs because of widespread public school failures. I can give lists of examples of how blacks, by and large, were kept out of the american dream. And Im talking NOW not then.

And as far as the slavery issues come. It has never been reconciled. You cant chain a man up and then set him free and expect him to compete... but if you prefer to lay the blame squarely on the shoulders of forebearers rather than acknowledge the devestating social economic and psychological impact it has had our black brethren, then you should stick your thumb up your arse farther.

Remember, it is not the statements that are made, it is the state of affairs.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

You do not understand what oppression is when you are poor and black. It has nothing to do with being condescending. The travesty hear is dismissing my statement as a broad generalization of poor communities. There are good people in the ghetto, no doubt about it, but religion in many circumstances, has a medicating effect and nurtures complacency, good and bad. As does alcohol and drugs, good people and bad. There is a liquor for every traffic light on every corner in South Washington DC. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Tell me why unemployment in the poor black communities of southside of chicago is upwards of 50 percent... what else are people to do when there are no jobs. There are more drug dealers than are street corners which may explain 300+ caskets a year in North Philadelphia. I think your more out of touch than I am. Moving a couple of eightballs a weekend consistently is the equivalent of 30,000 dollars a year. Sounds better than the GAP, oh..but thats right, corporate lay offs and outsourcing our the new business models.

Well maybe you are not out of touch, it may very well be that you understand, but the tone of your response is at the very least an apathetic point of view. So I am to assume you dont care, neither does the government. Sure there are good people in ghetto, but is it fair for them to work hard for nothing. For their children to turn to crime and drugs because of widespread public school failures. I can give lists of examples of how blacks, by and large, were kept out of the american dream. And Im talking NOW not then.

And as far as the slavery issues come. It has never been reconciled. You cant chain a man up and then set him free and expect him to compete... but if you prefer to lay the blame squarely on the shoulders of forebearers rather than acknowledge the devestating social economic and psychological impact it has had our black brethren, then you should stick your thumb up your arse farther.

Remember, it is not the statements that are made, it is the state of affairs.

here we get to the root of it all. These problems exist becasue of opprsssion or because people (regardless of color) dont get off their arses and get to work. Do you know why there are large african american populations in Oakland CA, Coastal Texas and Louisianna? becasue in WWII, thats where the jobs were. They moved to where the could work and support their family. I'd love to move to a warmer climate, but I cannot support my level of living at the salaries offered in other parts of the country...its a choice, so I live in the Northeast. I dont believe ANYONE is oppressed in this country. Hard work and creativity are always rewarded and there are always jobs for those willing to work. ES44 - you give in to the "victimization" that pluages black America, its a blame game and it hurts more than it helps. Look at the history of asian americans, although not 1000X as bad as slavery, many were brought to this country as near-slaves to build the railroads. but through hard work and tenacity, this culture has become a key contributing componenet to America today. There is no need for an Asian Al Sharpton. As much as African AMericans have truly suffered in this country, its time to move on and accept resposbility for our actions, liquour stores, drugs, proverty are all symptoms of a need, stop the need, stop the symptms. Have you every heard Bill Cosby's take? He puts the accountability at the family level. Thats where the solution is

[scottw]

I can't believe how easy it is for a knuckle dragging nanderthal to tweak Enlightened Elitists, I have a great idea for a new thread.....

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

here we get to the root of it all. These problems exist becasue of opprsssion or because people (regardless of color) dont get off their arses and get to work. Do you know why there are large african american populations in Oakland CA, Coastal Texas and Louisianna? becasue in WWII, thats where the jobs were. They moved to where the could work and support their family. I'd love to move to a warmer climate, but I cannot support my level of living at the salaries offered in other parts of the country...its a choice, so I live in the Northeast. I dont believe ANYONE is oppressed in this country. Hard work and creativity are always rewarded and there are always jobs for those willing to work. ES44 - you give in to the "victimization" that pluages black America, its a blame game and it hurts more than it helps. Look at the history of asian americans, although not 1000X as bad as slavery, many were brought to this country as near-slaves to build the railroads. but through hard work and tenacity, this culture has become a key contributing componenet to America today. There is no need for an Asian Al Sharpton. As much as African AMericans have truly suffered in this country, its time to move on and accept resposbility for our actions, liquour stores, drugs, proverty are all symptoms of a need, stop the need, stop the symptms. Have you every heard Bill Cosby's take? He puts the accountability at the family level. Thats where the solution is

No, there are large populations of blacks in coastal louisiana because the French planters brought them there. Not to mention when New Orleans became a part of the US it was a port of entry for wholesale human cargo, as was Charleston SC and Savannah GA. Pick up your history book. Same goes for Texas my friend. Blacks didnt move to major cities (like Oakland, Philly, Baltimore) until WW1 and later WW2. Ask your parents, thats probably when they moved to Levittown from Bed-Stuy.

And as far as achievement gaps come, they have made unbelievable strides. There has never been an Asian candidate for president. It is just a shame that this Wright is trashing that any hopes for 1st black president who is credible and qualified. Not to mention there are large populations of middle class blacks in Atlanta and Chicago.

And unarmed asians arent gunned down by police (be they black cops or white cops), and Al Sharpton is a parody if you ask me. MLK, Malcolm X, DuBois... those are real black leaders, all exterminated or exhiled....