Howard Stern Show’ Quizzes Obama Supporters in Harlem on Candidate Policies

[Slipknot]

Jim, I thought McCain did bring that up but I guess he didn't go into any detail.

The way I see it is Obama is basically buying votes by promising tax refunds to the poor, the robinhood tax system

The country is in for a real mess if he gets his way. I wish someone could explain to Obama why that tax is whacked.

I know who I am NOT voting for

[wader-dad]

"In 1980, when the top income tax rate was 70%, the richest 1% paid only 19% of all income taxes; now, with a top rate of 35%, they pay more than double that share. With lower rates and fewer tax loopholes after the 1986 reform, there is less incentive to shelter income to avoid tax." Quote

As a kind of a tax attorney- this "double their share" is because there a just a whole boat load of incredibly wealthy rich people out there. It is a totally meaningless statistic. The top 1% own more wealth than the bottom 95% combined. Not since the turn of the century have the rich been this rich. The rich are not being overburdened with taxes, they are paying the lowest taxes in history by far and they know it. They don't have to shelter income because the rates are so low.

These people are thrilled to pay income tax at the top rate of 35% and their dividends are taxed at only 15%. The wealthy know that their taxes are absurdly low from a historical perspective. Since the Bush tax breaks were enacted, it is estimated that those making more than $375,000 received tax reductions of $500 billion dollars. The 35% bracket does not kick in until your income is over $357,500. If the top rate is increased to 37% over $250,000 of income, A guy with $500,000 of income would pay around $7,500 more in taxes. Most clients I speak with would gladly do it if it meant reducing the deficit that is projected to be 1 trillion dollars just for the year ending September 30 2009.

But "if the rich had to pay more in taxes over $250,000, they would lay off many workers in their factories." "Why would rich people work hard if they had to pay more taxes." It is beyond belief that those words are spoken by humans.

Wealthy people know that they never had it so good. They know the bargain rates (especially the dividends tax which is unprecedented) have to end sometime. 37% or 38% is still lower than a 5 ounce bucktail with no heave.

[Mr. Sandman]

Originally Posted by wader-dad

"As a kind of a tax attorney- this "double their share" is because there a just a whole boat load of incredibly wealthy rich people out there. It is a totally meaningless statistic. The top 1% own more wealth than the bottom 95% combined. Not since the turn of the century have the rich been this rich. The rich are not being overburdened with taxes, they are paying the lowest taxes in history by far and they know it. They don't have to shelter income because the rates are so low.

.

I don't get your math. the top 1% is not going to change because there are more wealthy people...the number of taxpayers in the top 1% is only going to change when there are more taxpayers, not more wealthy people. If there are 300 mil taxpayers 1% is 3 mil. However it is true there is an perceived "imbalance", as those top 1% are richer today than 20 years ago and hence pay more tax. Personally that fact that 1% is carrying 40% of the load while the bottom 1/3 is paying ZERO and having the largest drain on the country's systems frankly is pretty generous. In absolute terms yes they can "afford to pay more taxes" but that doesn't mean they should. I would rather see an incentive created for them to risk their wealth to create more real business activity in areas that benefit the nation (ie energy, technology, transportation etc)...the payoff for them if successful...more wealth, which they would deserve. The payoff for the rest of us more jobs, less stain on public services (better benefits), better economy and more payroll taxes coming in . I am a big fan of private venture capitalists and gov't research and dev. Most people have no idea how these two things have transformed our standard of living in this country. IMO these two things combined with a big math and science push among kids entering college can get this country out of this highly leveraged Harvard MBA hole we have dug for ourselves.
There are more rich people today than in the past...IMO this demonstrates what makes this country great...that a boatload of people can create their wealth in their lifetime by taking risks and creating something. I grant you there are a few of the overpaid golden parachuted CEO's that don't deserve a dime and should be in prison IMO. I actually know one...lost a billion of other peoples money and then got 50 mil to leave the company. This is wrong and everyone agrees on that but these are the very few, but Obama constantly makes reference to he will be taxing these (rich white) guys but in reality, he will be taxing far more of the the guys trying to start a business. There is a big difference when hitting the billionaires and the business man. (the top 1% vs the top 5%


I am not a McCain lover. But I despise everything Obama. The reason isn't color although I have no doubt the bulk of the black population is voting for him because of his race yet the media makes Joe Six-pack ( average white guy)out to be the racist. The reason I really don't like Obama (beyond his flawed veiw of the tax structure) is that I see the president as the Commander in Chief of the Armed forces first and foremost. And McCain would be a far better and far more respected commander. That in a nutshell is what is most important to me in a president. The President does not spend money, he can't really. It is congress who votes on the budgets. Sure the President submits a budget but it rarely gets voted thru, the congress normally discards that and creates their own version.
So I see an Obama president as a real weakness for one of our country's greatest strengths, our military. Besides destroying capitalism he will begin the socialist transformation and destroy the work ethic and free enterprise and investment of this nation. There has to be a carrot on the stick for those that take risks and the carrot is cash. People will not work in the peace corp fashion forever with no pay, they just won't. His vision is flawed.
Ahhh, I vented, I feel much better now. Now that all the worlds problems are solved, I think I will go try and catch a bonito now.

[Nebe]

Rather than focus on the negatives, lets focus on the positives.

What is a fair living wage in this country ? Id say its $15 to $20 an hour if your single. If the bulk of the lower class were making that kind of money, this country would be back on track again.

I have no idea what minimum wage is these days, but I figure its under $10 an hour...

What I am saying is that the cost of living has skyrocketed and personal income has stagnated. As a result, people are defaulting on their mortgages and credit card debt.. To solve this, people have to earn more money.. its the only solution.

[slapshot]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Rather than focus on the negatives, lets focus on the positives.

What I am saying is that the cost of living has skyrocketed and personal income has stagnated. As a result, people are defaulting on their mortgages and credit card debt.. To solve this, people have to earn more money.. its the only solution.

That is one solution. The other would be to force people to live within their means. This down turn will surely wake some people up, I hope.

[Nebe]

lets talk about living within one's means...
these #'s are just off the top of my head and are not my living costs, but it will give you an idea of what it costs to live within one's means if you own a house and have a small family

an average mortgage is 1500 a month.

gas for one car- $50 a week (used to be 30) for a tank

car payment- $200

food- $500

health insurance- 1200

retirement savings- 1000

random purchases (clothes, misc) 500

seasonal expenses-

heating oil for your house for 5 months- 2000
remember summer vacations?? 2000

You basically need to make 60 grand a year to get by if you own a house and have a small family.. 60 grand a year works out to $30-$35 an hour for a 40 hour work week. I dont see many jobs out there that pay that these days..

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Rather than focus on the negatives, lets focus on the positives.

What is a fair living wage in this country ? Id say its $15 to $20 an hour if your single. If the bulk of the lower class were making that kind of money, this country would be back on track again.

I have no idea what minimum wage is these days, but I figure its under $10 an hour...

What I am saying is that the cost of living has skyrocketed and personal income has stagnated. As a result, people are defaulting on their mortgages and credit card debt.. To solve this, people have to earn more money.. its the only solution.

Positives?

Where does this money come from?

Lets run some numbers under your economic package:

(hypo) I am a small busness owner. I have 15 employees (uneducated, unskilled) who make your minimum wage of $10 an hour. They work 8 hours a week 50 weeks a year:

15 employees x $10= $150 per hour
$150 x 8 hours a day= $1,200 per day
$1,200 x 5 days a week = $6,000 per week
$6000 x 50 weeks a year (2 week vacation)= $300,000 year (payroll)

(And this doesn't even include the health insurance that the employer also pays into, which is a whole other argument)

Under your plan since the lower class needs more money, I just double everybody's salary by $10 to $20 an hour and double my payroll up to $600,000? That's how we solve this? We run the small business owner out of business on the spot, in doing so we eradicate the 15 jobs that these people had. Now they go on unemployment, welfare,WIC and begin to suck off the public teat?

I really don't know how to say this... but we do not get this country back on track by stuffing the pockets of the lower class. That is a panacea fraught with it's own set of problems.

[Slipknot]

Right on Bronko but I think most Americans don't get it (or atleast the ones in the Obama camp)and are so dumbed down that your point is not entering anyones' brain cells. Our own elected officials can't see the common sense of your statement
sad really if the country goes down that road

If I spoil my kids and keep giving and giving, they will have no incentive to go work or do good in school, it's the same with the Government bailing out anyone that needs it



Congress better do a better job of seeing the future or we will need a revolution

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Our own elected officials can't see the common sense of your statement

No common sense is the big part of the problem.
They're so busy thinking they're so smart and above everybody else,they wouldn't know common sense if they fell over it.

They have outsmarted themselves.

Ya gotta live within your means no matter what, and so does the government.
People didn't and the government won't, now it's time to pay the piper.

Obama wanting to spend another 3 trillion on top of the debt we're in is insane.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Rather than focus on the negatives, lets focus on the positives.

What is a fair living wage in this country ? Id say its $15 to $20 an hour if your single. If the bulk of the lower class were making that kind of money, this country would be back on track again.

I have no idea what minimum wage is these days, but I figure its under $10 an hour...

What I am saying is that the cost of living has skyrocketed and personal income has stagnated. As a result, people are defaulting on their mortgages and credit card debt.. To solve this, people have to earn more money.. its the only solution.

A fair living wage is directly relative to how hard you are willing to work for it. Work hard earn more, not so hard not so much. Thats fair.