No Peanuts????

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

but plenty of adults in places that have been devoid of them for a few years.
What does this mean? No idea as I don't know as much as I thought I did.

Many of the pods don't even have fish on them...

I've been babysitting a pod for a couple of weeks

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Many of the pods don't even have fish on them...

I've been babysitting a pod for a couple of weeks

Same here, I watched a pod of about 50 go unmolested at an east coast UDL two nights in a row this past week.

Prior to it being "over" I witnessed something real cool...a bunch of big fish plowing through the bunker right in front of me for about one hour. Surprisingly, the fish didn't hesitate to take my eels. At one point the fish stationed in front of the lighted area I was fishing and there were some real nice fish sitting in plain view. Biggest ones were on the bottom, of course...was like watching one of Fish Eye's videos for a short time, the fish paid me no attention and went about their business.

[BasicPatrick]

Some thoughts,

I did some learning about Bunker movements a few years ago when I was living in Hull and working/advocating on the issue of local depletion of Bunker. At the time, I was very confused as to how the Bunker stocks were being reported as in good shape when all we saw were a lot of Peanuts in the Fall and sporatic adults in the Spring and early Summer. We never saw those year classes that make up the "teenage" 4 to 8 inch bunker. Funny how those "teenagers" are the sizes that get hit hardest by the reduction boats.

What I learned was that the ocean currents, esp in the Gulf of Maine have a lot to do with what we see as far as all sizes of Bunker in this area.

I clearly remember the years from '95 to somewhere around Y2K before the Peanuts got thick on the South Shore. They were here those years but in numbers more like they are now, not in the large amounts of the banner years as we have had from say Y2K to '06.

The conversations I had in say '03 or '04 when we had loads of Peanuts but not many adults educated me on how little understanding the "experts" had on the movement of Bunker. At least today, there are some major studies ongoign as a result of the pressure the organized rec community & enviros coastwide put on the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission a few years ago.

My "fisherman's" experience is that the number of Peanuts started to drop when the number of adults started to increase. Now some would think that this means the big numbers of Peanuts grew up and there are no juviniles to replace them. Unfortunately, that is not what sea sampling and other data indicates because what we were seeing on the South Shore changed from a lot of Peanuts to a lot of adults way too quickly and we never saw the "teenage" Bunker.

The best info I have learned tells me the change in migrating patterns that results in more adult and less Peanuts seems to have something to do with ocean currents and we need more understanding to really figure out what is going on.

I offer another bit of evidence to support the ocean current theory from a fisherman's perspective. The amount of serious beach erosion events that lead to breaches on Nauset, MV, Nantucket all began right around the time the Peanuts slowed and the adults dramatically increased. Another indicator of ocean current change.

What this means....I have no idea

[Dad 818]

Saw a daytime bluefish blitz last week. The baitfish had a bright green (almost flourescent) color to their backs. They weren't very big, but the blues were crushing them. No idea what they were.

[Clogston29]

Originally Posted by Dad 818

Saw a daytime bluefish blitz last week. The baitfish had a bright green (almost flourescent) color to their backs. They weren't very big, but the blues were crushing them. No idea what they were.

maybe bay anchovies

[ridler72]

Peanuts Bunker seemed little to non existent in myneck of the woods. Blue Back Herring and Poagies where the most present.

Even Newport RI was dead. I was down there for Albies in August and nothing was seen. In 2007 during August-Sept from Sak to Newport (and I am sure beyond) was an unbelievable site of peanuts and other forage. Most I ever seen. Of course the Albie fishing was unreal. Up to 17 Albies in a day from a kayak. This year I did not see one Albie break and little to no bait.

[FishermanTim]

I agree with Clogston that since we had a wetter than usual spring and summer, it may have affected the spawning of these fish. Since the additional runoff may have changed the water quality in the bays and marshes, the fish may have changed their spawning habits.
There is also the possibility that with the added runoff from rain there may be added chemicals/pollution to be considered.

Hopefully it may be a case of "delayed spawning"

[flyvice11787]

Originally Posted by Clogston29

maybe bay anchovies

When you see anchovies, it goes from red to rust brown to black. Anchovies = surefire blitzes . Maybe the green was tinker macks?

[Clogston29]

from what little reading i've done on menhaden:

large bunker migrate up and down the coast during the year, combined with inshore to offshore migrations within that migration. the largest concentration of bunker at any one time occures off the coast of the carolinas in the winter, which is where most of their spawning occures. in early spring, they migrate both south to florida and north to nova scotia, with the larger ones typically going north (no clue why). as they migrate, they spawn more throughout the year, with spawining occuring closer to shore the further north they move, until spawning actually occures within tidal rivers and backwaters as it does up here. i assume this is based on providing the most favorable conditions for the spawn. the fish spawned up here live in the rivers and backwaters until fall when they begin dropping out and moving south.

seeing that the population of adult bunker is on the rise here, i would suspect that the lack of peanuts could be based on conditions in the spring (heavy rains, strong currents, heavy winds, you name it). maybe they just choose not to spawn up here some years based on a set of conditions no being met. or they spawn, but conditions are not optimal for their survival and only small numbers survive.

since the majority of spawning occures down south in the winter, i would not think that fluctuations in when and where the more minor spawning events happen would have little effect on future populations, unless something needs to be considered based on regional survival rates that i don't know enough about to comment on (ex. maybe the fish born off the carolina are more susceptable to seining?)

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Clogston29

seeing that the population of adult bunker is on the rise here, i would suspect that the lack of peanuts could be based on conditions in the spring (heavy rains, strong currents, heavy winds, you name it). maybe they just choose not to spawn up here some years based on a set of conditions no being met. or they spawn, but conditions are not optimal for their survival and only small numbers survive.

since the majority of spawning occures down south in the winter, i would not think that fluctuations in when and where the more minor spawning events happen would have little effect on future populations, unless something needs to be considered based on regional survival rates that i don't know enough about to comment on (ex. maybe the fish born off the carolina are more susceptable to seining?)

Makes me wonder if somehow connected to the high numbers of stripers I saw, or heard of, that had not spawned this year...