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Old 11-06-2008, 08:50 AM   #1
Mr. Sandman
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Thanks for your advice. You sound like the S&P rating agencies who downgraded the banks after their collapse.

The bad news about the economy is well known, yesterdays market move(over 5%) was directly connected to the election results and money managers reacting to tax and political realities. The value lost just yesterday nationwide was hundreds of billions. Selling will continue thru the end of the year to minimize the inevitable increase cap gains tax effects that will kick in 09. You will retire broke, markets will not recover in you lifetime... baby boomers are leaving the markets for good now and will not return and there are not as many of you to fill the void. You will end up receiving a gov't stipend that will cover enough for you to eek out a meager existence and taxing YOUR kids at 70% to fund your retirement. Enjoy your poverty and new Socialist agenda (and your new found hope).

No one will invest in america (small "a") anymore or want to risk their savings to start a small business with 50%+ total tax burden.

But we will negotiate with terrorists and the French will think we are nice people, that's all that really counts right?
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:54 AM   #2
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman View Post
Thanks for your advice. You sound like the S&P rating agencies who downgraded the banks after their collapse.

The bad news about the economy is well known, yesterdays market move(over 5%) was directly connected to the election results and money managers reacting to tax and political realities. The value lost just yesterday nationwide was hundreds of billions. Selling will continue thru the end of the year to minimize the inevitable increase cap gains tax effects that will kick in 09. You will retire broke, markets will not recover in you lifetime... baby boomers are leaving the markets for good now and will not return and there are not as many of you to fill the void. You will end up receiving a gov't stipend that will cover enough for you to eek out a meager existence and taxing YOUR kids at 70% to fund your retirement. Enjoy your poverty and new Socialist agenda (and your new found hope).

No one will invest in america (small "a") anymore or want to risk their savings to start a small business with 50%+ total tax burden.

But we will negotiate with terrorists and the French will think we are nice people, that's all that really counts right?
Because McCain would have magically fixed it yesterday right?
The world would live in fear of us and send us all their money.
Some old dying white guy would make the turrrrrists skurred to come here.

Make your bunker yet?

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Old 11-06-2008, 09:22 AM   #4
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No, I am not saying McCain was the silver bullet to cure all our economic problems. Out of all that ran for the office, Romney would have been the best economic choice to deal with that matter, but that is another matter.I do think McCain would be a better commander in chief, I think even most dems agree with that. Come on, what Military skills does Obama posses. I think your all drawn to him by is articulate and flowery speaking and equate that with experience and leadership skills.

Enough of this I have got to get back to filling out my welfare paperwork.
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:27 AM   #5
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No, I am not saying McCain was the silver bullet to cure all our economic problems. Out of all that ran for the office, Romney would have been the best economic choice to deal with that matter, but that is another matter.I do think McCain would be a better commander in chief, I think even most dems agree with that. Come on, what Military skills does Obama posses. .
What Military skills did GWB, BC or Reagan possess. Hell what military skills does Romney possess?
I'll give you the fact that GHWB could have parachuted in and taken out Bin Laden, but the others couldn't....
Leadership is not just learned in the military

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Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:40 AM   #6
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Out of all that ran for the office, Romney would have been the best economic choice to deal with that matter, but that is another matter.
You DO live in MA right?
You're INSANE.

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Old 11-06-2008, 11:35 AM   #7
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Jim what should I put down on line 38a? The instructions were 59 pages for a 2 page application

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Enough of this I have got to get back to filling out my welfare paperwork.
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman View Post
Thanks for your advice. You sound like the S&P rating agencies who downgraded the banks after their collapse.


No one will invest in america (small "a") anymore or want to risk their savings to start a small business with 50%+ total tax burden.

But we will negotiate with terrorists and the French will think we are nice people, that's all that really counts right?
Yup, you have a fundamental lack of knowledge of markets and thus you probably shouldn't invest as the article states stocks have fared better under Dem. admin.

Thanks but I'll retire with plenty of money, I'm highly educated and make plenty of $. Maybe we won't have to cry like little school girls when we get mad the French or other allies won't back us blindly.

Stocks erased all their gains from Tuesday’s rally — the biggest on a presidential Election Day in 24 years — as investors banked their profits and dealt with another round of bleak economic news, this time about businesses that compose nearly 90 percent of the economy.

Managing Globalization: Where Does Economic Growth Come From?
The Dow Jones industrial average tumbled 486.01 points on Wednesday after a daylong sell-off accelerated in the final hour, sending the index to 9,139.27, its lowest level in a week. The broader Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index fell 5.3 percent, or 52.98 points, to 952.77, and the Nasdaq composite index lost 5.5 percent, or 98.48 points, to 1,681.64.

On Wall Street, the selling began early after a report showed that activity in the nation’s service industries contracted in October, falling at the fastest rate since records began in 1997.

The index by the Institute for Supply Management dropped to 44.4, from 50.2 in September, on a scale where readings below 50 indicate contraction, the group said on Wednesday.

It was the latest in a string of discouraging data this week on the nation’s construction, manufacturing and service industries, crucial pillars of the American economy that have all suffered this fall.

“In short, horrible,” Ian Shepherdson of High Frequency Economics said of the report. “But only to be expected in the wake of the equity plunge and the subsequent collapse in confidence. We don’t expect the headline to drop much more.”

All 30 stocks in the Dow declined, with financial shares faring worst. Shares of Bank of America, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch all fell more than 11 percent. The big insurers Ambac and MBIA posted deep losses for last quarter and their shares lost 41 percent and 22 percent, respectively.

“I think anytime you do see a rally like we’ve been having, there will always be a little bit of pullback when people wake up and see things like today’s headline number on nonmanufacturing activity, which was the lowest of all time,” Michael Feroli, an economist at JPMorgan Chase, said. “If there’s data out, there’s going to be bad news out. That will tend to keep market enthusiasm a little bit contained.”

Earnings also disappointed at several major businesses, offering a bleak assessments of the current economy. GMAC, the finance company partly owned by General Motors, said that it lost $2.52 billion in the third quarter and that its mortgage unit, ResCap, was struggling to survive. Time Warner, the media and entertainment juggernaut, reported a higher-than-expected profit for the third quarter but lowered its outlook; its stock dropped 6.3 percent.

Crude oil prices dropped $5.23 a barrel to settle at $65.30.

The Treasury’s benchmark 10-year note rose 6/32, to 102 13/32. The yield, which moves in the opposite direction from the price, was at 3.70 percent, down from 3.72 percent late Tuesday.

Wall Street will now turn to Friday’s employment report from the Labor Department, which economists expect will show that 200,000 jobs were lost last month. A separate report released on Wednesday by Automatic Data Processing, a private group, showed that private companies cut an estimated 157,000 jobs in October, the most in almost six years.

The A.D.P. report is considered volatile by economists and has been a poor predictor of this year’s employment figures from the government. Still, investors can refer to it as a gauge for Friday’s more important data, and the news was not good. Layoffs spread from automakers, financial and housing-related companies to retailers and other services as the downturn deepened.

For investors seeking a silver lining, Wednesday’s market downturn seemed to indicate that Wall Street was once again reacting in predictable ways to negative news. For weeks, traders were in crisis mode, obsessing about arcane credit gauges like Ted spreads and credit-default swaps, and wondering about the outcome of the election. On the top of the wish list for investors was a return to stability.

“The market is starting to focus on normal things, like company fundamentals, earnings, macroeconomic data, employment, even market technicals like trend lines,” said Steve Sachs, director of trading at Rydex Investments. “After four or five weeks where none of that mattered, this is the first week we are thinking about that. Markets are moving in a more orderly way.”

For those curious about the connection between stock markets and presidential elections, Wednesday’s declines fit in with historical precedent. Since 1888, on average, stocks fell 0.5 percent from Monday to Wednesday of a presidential election week when the Democrats took the White House, according to Jeremy J. Siegel, a professor at the Wharton School. (A Republican victory brought an average return of 0.7 percent.) This week, stocks fell about 1.5 percent over the same period.

Over the full four-year term, stocks have historically fared better under Democratic administrations.

Stocks in Frankfurt, London and Paris all fell about 2 percent.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman View Post
No one will invest in america (small "a") anymore or want to risk their savings to start a small business with 50%+ total tax burden.:
Lets examine the top 1% taxpayers again to see if they have any incentive to keep making money and if they are losing 50%. Attached is the full summary of all tax returns filed in calender year 2006 published by the IRS - the last data available.

There are 1,357,192 taxpayers in the top 1% of richest taxpayers. They had adjusted gross income of 1.791 Trillion dollars of income. Yes trillion. The average income reported on each of the top 1% returns was $1,320,289. for the year.

The average tax rate ( tax paid as a percent of income) on those 1% returns was 22.79% So the guys make an average of $1,320,289 and paid 22.79% in taxes. See the chart -those are the facts. Yes they pay 40% of total taxes paid but each loses around a quarter of their money to the feds.

So I can't really feel that the 1% people are being destroyed by taxes, that they have no incentive to make any money and if they have to pay 25.98% of their $1,320,289 under Obama's plan that the USA will come to an end.

So lets not panic here.
Attached Files
File Type: doc Number of Returns with Positive AGI.doc (35.0 KB, 519 views)
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:52 PM   #10
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Lets examine the top 1% taxpayers again to see if they have any incentive to keep making money and if they are losing 50%. Attached is the full summary of all tax returns filed in calender year 2006 published by the IRS - the last data available.

There are 1,357,192 taxpayers in the top 1% of richest taxpayers. They had adjusted gross income of 1.791 Trillion dollars of income. Yes trillion. The average income reported on each of the top 1% returns was $1,320,289. for the year.

The average tax rate ( tax paid as a percent of income) on those 1% returns was 22.79% So the guys make an average of $1,320,289 and paid 22.79% in taxes. See the chart -those are the facts. Yes they pay 40% of total taxes paid but each loses around a quarter of their money to the feds.

So I can't really feel that the 1% people are being destroyed by taxes, that they have no incentive to make any money and if they have to pay 25.98% of their $1,320,289 under Obama's plan that the USA will come to an end.

So lets not panic here.
Wow, that would have to be one heck of a "small business" to be in the top 1%. Do you think landscapers, liquor store owners, contractors, etc...fall into that 1% catergory? The taxes for real small businesses are still an impediment to many small business owners. Also, you are leaving out things like unemployment taxes, real estate taxes, and payroll taxes. Maybe it's not too bad in CT, but in RI it's almost impossible to own and operate a small business profitably.

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:39 PM   #11
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Wow, that would have to be one heck of a "small business" to be in the top 1%. Do you think landscapers, liquor store owners, contractors, etc...fall into that 1% catergory? The taxes for real small businesses are still an impediment to many small business owners. Also, you are leaving out things like unemployment taxes, real estate taxes, and payroll taxes. Maybe it's not too bad in CT, but in RI it's almost impossible to own and operate a small business profitably.
Fishbones- sorry- I was responding to Sandman here and on another thread where we were going back and forth on what affect the Obama plan would have on taxes and I had pointed out that the plan would only hit the rich on their income-(salaries and bonuses and dividends and capital gains) and they would still be interested in being rich and making money even if the top rates went back to the clinton era. He said it was unfair that the top 1% richest taxpayers were paying 40% of the total tax.

As I understand the Obama plan-the tax rate on salaries over $250,000 would go up- As to small businesses- I agree with you that the cost of doing business is incredibly high- but Obama's tax plan does not make that worse-The taxes do not go up on a small business until Joe the Plumber has a good enough year that he has enough profit (after paying all expenses and materials and benefits and payroll taxes) to be able to pay himself $250,000 in salary and bonuses free and clear. Then Joe the Plumber on his personal 1040 would pay some more taxes under Obama as compaed to Bush. I think Joe the Plumber would be thrilled to be able to pay himself over $250,000 in bonuses and salary if he could.
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