Stripers forever!

[Flaptail]

ATTACHMENT A.

If you want to "save" the striped bass then direct your efforts to menhaden, river herring , seal overpopulation and water quality issues here and especially in the Chesapeake and Hudson. The laws governing the taking of striped bass in each of the atlantic states it traverses must be unified as well

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

ATTACHMENT A.

If you want to "save" the striped bass then direct your efforts to menhaden, river herring , seal overpopulation and water quality issues here and especially in the Chesapeake and Hudson. The laws governing the taking of striped bass in each of the atlantic states it traverses must be unified as well

Well said Flap -

Those are the real issues impacting the health of the fishery.

A few years ago my wife did a documentary for Friends of the Waterfront on the history of Newport's waterfront, it's access issues and how everything is predicated on fishermen's rights going back to the King Charles Charter of 1661.

I filmed an interview she did with George Mendosa, the retired owner of the Tolman and Mack Fish Trap Co. here in Newport who was in his 80's at the time. George is famous as the Kissing Sailor in the iconic photo taken in Times Square on VJ Day.

At any rate, we got to talking about the amazing abundance of fish in our area years ago, the catch rates for striped bass going back to the late '20's when he was a kid and the current state of the fishery today.

George said the real culprit in the decimation of the stocks wasn't the commercial fisherman despite the finger-pointing - it was the housewife with her laundry detergent and all the other sources of pollution in the estuaries and rivers.

I couldn't agree with him more.

Here's a pre-WWII photo of George and his brothers tending their nets at Green Bridge, where he said the eelgrass was once so thick you could barely row through it, much less use an outboard. You'd be hard put to find eelgrass there today more than a few yards across.

It was the most important estuary on the Island and currently undergoing restoration - hopefully, it will one day recover.

Like Flap said, SF has it's own agenda - and from all I've heard and seen it's not an organization I'd want to be associated with. There are others whose goals are a lot less self-serving.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

There are others whose goals are a lot less self-serving.

I think not. This is the "God is on our side so we must be right" argument. Everyone's goals are self-serving, they are just different. Blaming housewives' detergent while you kill as many fish as you are allowed to keep or sell for your own benefit/profit may be accurate, but it is far from altruistic.

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by numbskull

... Blaming housewives' detergent while you kill as many fish as you are allowed to keep or sell for your own benefit/profit may be accurate, but it is far from altruistic.

Let's face it, we make sport out of salt-water fishing, which is sort of a a patrician concept that was begun in earnest in the middle 1800's by very wealthy men for the sheer pleasure of it and we all spend a considerable amount of time, money and personal energy on that pursuit today.

If we wanted to truly preserve the fishery, we wouldn't put so much effort into dragging 'em around by the lips for our own enjoyment with the attendant risk of C&R mortality if C&R is your thing.

If the proposed saltwater fishing license ever does what it's supposed to do - which is get an accurate assessment of the rec catch rate - I think it will finally put to rest the notion that the recreational sector is completely blameless in stock declines.

This could be a long discussion and I've got other plans for the day, but sure, I realize there are plenty of flies in that particular ointment. Data already available would suggest just that there's plenty of blame to go around on a number of different fronts.

Numbie, none of us, regardless of what we do to put food on the table or keep a roof over our families head, does so without impact on the environment in one way or another.

Discussing altruism is a slippery slope.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

If we wanted to truly preserve the fishery, we wouldn't put so much effort into dragging 'em around by the lips for our own enjoyment with the attendant risk of C&R mortality if C&R is your thing.

Exactly. If preserving fish, for the fishes' sake is your priority you shouldn't fish at all. It is not mine, so I fish. Anybody who fishes has their own agenda for doing so, which is why it is disingenuous to point fingers at other user groups/organizations. .

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

If the proposed saltwater fishing license ever does what it's supposed to do - which is get an accurate assessment of the rec catch rate - I think it will finally put to rest the notion that the recreational sector is completely blameless in stock declines.

Please! Who is claiming that?

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

Numbie, none of us, regardless of what we do to put food on the table or keep a roof over our families head, does so without impact on the environment in one way or another.

Why are you addressing that sentence to me? It implies that I don't realize this simple truth.

Stripers Forever is a somewhat amateurishly run organization that advocates eliminating the sale of striped bass via establishing gamefish status. Gamefish status puts the shaft to guys who fish for money, and to those in the non-fishing public who like to eat striped bass (though farm raised fish may be changing this). Gamefish status is great for guys who like to fish for striped bass, particularly those who are either not very good at it or like to use inefficient means to do it. It is probably also good for a substantially larger sector of the economy that caters to recreational fishing as opposed to that which serves the commercial side. Gamefish status does not automatically improve the fishery, but by eliminating a major user group (as well as the illegal sale of fish) it makes management much easier.

The issue comes down to one of fairness. Is it fair to deny someone the enjoyment of catching and selling fish for profit in order to increase your own success and enjoyment? Is it fair for someone to catch and kill much larger numbers of fish, and profit from doing it, while making it harder for others to enjoy catching and releasing or killing a much smaller individual share of the resource? Although most of us probably would prefer gamefish status, most do not want to hurt the others who use the resource differently......at least until the resource is sufficiently strained to unacceptably impact our own happiness.

[stiff tip]

Originally Posted by numbskull

I think not. This is the "God is on our side so we must be right" argument. Everyone's goals are self-serving, they are just different. Blaming housewives' detergent while you kill as many fish as you are allowed to keep or sell for your own benefit/profit may be accurate, but it is far from altruistic.

.............WOW ....i luv that talk ....flap how's bout a rebutal... i gutta idea ..all u do gooders n do baders stop fishing ..theres way to many of you chatching MY fish now..... imo i think its a enviromental inbalance disaster ...what about the cod fish mess ..how about 'codfish forever '

[Crafty Angler]

Screw the whales - Save the Pogies!

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

A few years ago my wife did a documentary for Friends of the Waterfront on the history of Newport's waterfront, it's access issues and how everything is predicated on fishermen's rights going back to the King Charles Charter of 1661.

"Fishermen's rights" are weaker than the power of the dollar.

And as far as people "making money" selling Striped Bass, the only ones making any kind of money are the poachers (That includes guys playing the system and catching in one state waters and selling in another state. Yes. You're poachers.).

[Krispy]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

Well said Flap -

Those are the real issues impacting the health of the fishery.

A few years ago my wife did a documentary for Friends of the Waterfront on the history of Newport's waterfront, it's access issues and how everything is predicated on fishermen's rights going back to the King Charles Charter of 1661.

I filmed an interview she did with George Mendosa, the retired owner of the Tolman and Mack Fish Trap Co. here in Newport who was in his 80's at the time. George is famous as the Kissing Sailor in the iconic photo taken in Times Square on VJ Day.

At any rate, we got to talking about the amazing abundance of fish in our area years ago, the catch rates for striped bass going back to the late '20's when he was a kid and the current state of the fishery today.

George said the real culprit in the decimation of the stocks wasn't the commercial fisherman despite the finger-pointing - it was the housewife with her laundry detergent and all the other sources of pollution in the estuaries and rivers.

I couldn't agree with him more.

Here's a pre-WWII photo of George and his brothers tending their nets at Green Bridge, where he said the eelgrass was once so thick you could barely row through it, much less use an outboard. You'd be hard put to find eelgrass there today more than a few yards across.

It was the most important estuary on the Island and currently undergoing restoration - hopefully, it will one day recover.

Like Flap said, SF has it's own agenda - and from all I've heard and seen it's not an organization I'd want to be associated with. There are others whose goals are a lot less self-serving.

From my reading, George Mendoza was no friend of the Striped Bass, and was quick to blame everything else before taking personal responsibility for the commercial sectors hand in the demise of the SB.
Him being the "Kissing Sailor" has been debated, as well.
That info might be from "Striper" by John Cole, not positive

[The Dad Fisherman]

http://www.militarytimes.com/news/20...sailor_070806/

[basswipe]

If you believe even an ounce of what #^&#^&#^&#^& Russell wrote,George Mendoza was satan as far as illegal striper fishing went.

Being a local and knowing so many...what should I say?

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by basswipe

If you believe even an ounce of what #^&#^&#^&#^& Russell wrote,George Mendoza was satan as far as illegal striper fishing went.

Being a local and knowing so many...what should I say?

Norm, I assume you're talking about Striper Wars - vaguely recognize the name, don't know the title of the book and didn't know he referenced George.

I would guess that's the reason I got waylaid by these ****ing gibronies after my earlier post. I'll have to read it at some point to see what Russell has to say.

I've known George since I was old enough to walk although I've never spoken with him personally until that interview. I have both friends and family who are - or were - commercial fisherman, anti-Christs to some of you.

I'm not recanting in my agreement on his statement on pollution, which was my point.

Regardless, I'd still rather listen to what he has to say - since he walked the walk, whether I agree with all of his views or not - than any number of you internet experts and self-appointed leading authorities relying on half-assed Google searches.

If you disagree with me, then we can agree to disagree.

If you don't like the cut of my jib, go **** yourself.

Period. End of story. That's all she wrote.

[DZ]

Originally Posted by basswipe

If you believe even an ounce of what #^&#^&#^&#^& Russell wrote,George Mendoza was satan as far as illegal striper fishing went.

Being a local and knowing so many...what should I say?

Basswipe,
I know #^&#^&#^&#^& Russell, read his book, and lived through all the contentious fisheries meetings during that time. #^&#^&#^&#^& Russell always took notes and his book portrays a very accurate history of those meetings and he was at almost every one of them. Both George and #^&#^&#^&#^& were very passionate about their views. Stripers Forever may be a little mis-guided in seeking gamefish status but I truely admire those people (just as I admired Bob Pond) for being passionate about protecting striped bass.

DZ

[Sea Flat]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

Well said Flap -

Those are the real issues impacting the health of the fishery.

A few years ago my wife did a documentary for Friends of the Waterfront on the history of Newport's waterfront, it's access issues and how everything is predicated on fishermen's rights going back to the King Charles Charter of 1661.

I filmed an interview she did with George Mendosa, the retired owner of the Tolman and Mack Fish Trap Co. here in Newport who was in his 80's at the time. George is famous as the Kissing Sailor in the iconic photo taken in Times Square on VJ Day.

At any rate, we got to talking about the amazing abundance of fish in our area years ago, the catch rates for striped bass going back to the late '20's when he was a kid and the current state of the fishery today.

George said the real culprit in the decimation of the stocks wasn't the commercial fisherman despite the finger-pointing - it was the housewife with her laundry detergent and all the other sources of pollution in the estuaries and rivers.

I couldn't agree with him more.

Here's a pre-WWII photo of George and his brothers tending their nets at Green Bridge, where he said the eelgrass was once so thick you could barely row through it, much less use an outboard. You'd be hard put to find eelgrass there today more than a few yards across.

It was the most important estuary on the Island and currently undergoing restoration - hopefully, it will one day recover.

Like Flap said, SF has it's own agenda - and from all I've heard and seen it's not an organization I'd want to be associated with. There are others whose goals are a lot less self-serving.

Read "Striper Wars" by #^&#^&#^&#^& Russell and you may not want to take what Mr. Mendonsa says to be his real feelings. he was a very crooked person with personal agendas that did not care about the potential wiping out of a species.

What he said in the quote he gave your wife sounds good I just really doubt how much he actually believes it.

[Sea Flat]

Should have read all the posts before replying i guess. Sorry to be redundant.