Over Sealed

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by numbskull

" Put one in the oven and cooked it for 30" at 200 degrees. One horrendous stench.

Boy .. She puts up with alot .. I'd be sleeping in my car .

I pre heat my plugs 20min 200-225 ...acid brush my (thinner than water) CPES on them and syringe it thru the middle .. Sucs right in ,, bone dry next day.. no noticible weight gain .. Although our methods are different I think Larry's right again ... 24 hrs.. way over kill ... why not just use pressure treated ?

[Canalman]

George,

If you read those old articles that someone posted about Musso and his wooden plugs printed in the Fisherman some 20 years ago, you'll see that he sealed his plugs with some kind of Acrylic sealer. Acrylics simply do not penetrate, they stick, I'd bet that if you were to "Bandsaw Eddy" one of those darters, you'd find a shiny, hard coating on the inside of the thru-wire and hook holes. This means minimal time in the stuff and that only what sticks and dries on the surface is going to add to the weight.

Another thing you might try is epoxying the plug before you seal it, this will limit the surface area that is absorbing the sealer. I do this all the time to limit that very problem.

Let me know what you think...
-dave

[BigFish]

That method was for AYC Paul....hardwoods probably longer.

[Flaptail]

I've been doing the dip and wipe with Slip's touch of using the pipe cleaners soaked in sealer and run thru the thru wire hole. Works fine. Plugs hold up.

Don't over think it G. At this rate you'll drive yourself mad and family relations will suffer the closer we get to plugfest.

I have a great resource for stress management if you feel the need.

[NIB]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

I've been doing the dip and wipe with Slip's touch of using the pipe cleaners soaked in sealer and run thru the thru wire hole. Works fine. Plugs hold up.

Don't over think it G. At this rate you'll drive yourself mad and family relations will suffer the closer we get to plugfest.

I have a great resource for stress management if you feel the need.

I agree about stress management.It can be disheartening though to put so much into the development of a plug to have the finish let go or to have the wood check..I primarily use a thin systems three epoxy on heated wood.I do the same thing with the pipe cleaners to work it in the holes.I love it on red cedar.The softer wood soaks up so much epoxy.It makes it bullet proof.Still without all the weight of a harder wood.It does not work well on hard maple as every darter I have done with it has split.I was told to use the 50/50 formula as it helps promote sealer penetration.

Geo I would think if the plug lost weight when heated in the oven. If you give it time the others will lose weight also.It's pretty dry this time of year. I think a good month and the spirits will totally evaporate.Giving you the desired weight results.I don't think you can/should rush this process.I hate to wait myself.This is why I like epoxy.
I still think spinning em,priming em and painting em with a top coat of some spray clear makes as much sense sometimes.
If they check split or get water logged it's so easy to make another..It was so much more fun to me when I did it like that.
Now it seems I go through all the trouble getting what I want out of design and it sits..I hate the ensuing processes to complete the product.It's very frustrating and I have just about stopped building as I can't seem to make a plug to meet up to my own standards..
G-forbid one of my ill fated creations got into someone else's hands and the finish let go...

[numbskull]

Tony, the heating actually drives quite a bit of thick oil out of the plug. That surprised me because I assumed most of the weight would be the mineral spirits (surely some of it is).

With regards to splitting, hardwood plugs split when the INSIDE of the plug gets wet and expands. This tears the drier outside apart. Wood absorbs water (or sealer) primarily through endgrain (where the little tubes that transport water up the tree are open). As people have pointed out, sealing the surface of the plug is less of an issue. Another factor, I believe, may be the grain orientation. If you look at the end grain, the wood will swell parallel to the grain lines, and very little perpendicularly to them. Hence, if the hook holes drill up through the grain lines it exposes more endgrain to absorb water and when the plug expands it will be the sides that bulge out, splitting the plug between the hook holes. I suspect that drilling the hook holes along, rather than across, the grain lines will reduce splitting. We'll see.

As far as sealing is concerned, I like the soaking method better than the applied method since it eliminates missed spots in the hook hole or wire hole. I also worry about this CPES stuff. Epoxy that thin must be pretty volatile and easy to inhale. Many people develop severe allergic skin reactions to epoxy. The same kind of reaction starting in your lungs could be serious and sudden. I'm pretty careless about this stuff, but if using CPES I'd probably wear an organic respirator.

I'm also thinking that this weight gain with sealer may not be all bad. If I time it right, I can bring soft maple up to the weight of hard maple (both end up weighing the same when fully saturated). I think the soft maple is less prone to splitting.

As for the perfectionist stuff. Lots of us suffer from that. Once I saw Paul's plugs I realized I was never going to be that good so I said Fck it and now I'm turning out lots of crap to fish. Feels good.

[numbskull]

Here are some pictures of a split darter. Built @ 1986-87. I got lazy about sealing with BLO and thought Krylon spray sealer would do the trick. Note the grain orientation and how the plug split perpendicular to the grain lines. Telling....I think.

[NIB]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Tony, the heating actually drives quite a bit of thick oil out of the plug. That surprised me because I assumed most of the weight would be the mineral spirits (surely some of it is).

With regards to splitting, hardwood plugs split when the INSIDE of the plug gets wet and expands. This tears the drier outside apart. Wood absorbs water (or sealer) primarily through endgrain (where the little tubes that transport water up the tree are open). As people have pointed out, sealing the surface of the plug is less of an issue. Another factor, I believe, may be the grain orientation. If you look at the end grain, the wood will swell parallel to the grain lines, and very little perpendicularly to them. Hence, if the hook holes drill up through the grain lines it exposes more endgrain to absorb water and when the plug expands it will be the sides that bulge out, splitting the plug between the hook holes. I suspect that drilling the hook holes along, rather than across, the grain lines will reduce splitting. We'll see.

As far as sealing is concerned, I like the soaking method better than the applied method since it eliminates missed spots in the hook hole or wire hole. I also worry about this CPES stuff. Epoxy that thin must be pretty volatile and easy to inhale. Many people develop severe allergic skin reactions to epoxy. The same kind of reaction starting in your lungs could be serious and sudden. I'm pretty careless about this stuff, but if using CPES I'd probably wear an organic respirator.

I'm also thinking that this weight gain with sealer may not be all bad. If I time it right, I can bring soft maple up to the weight of hard maple (both end up weighing the same when fully saturated). I think the soft maple is less prone to splitting.

As for the perfectionist stuff. Lots of us suffer from that. Once I saw Paul's plugs I realized I was never going to be that good so I said Fck it and now I'm turning out lots of crap to fish. Feels good.

If you run into a problem try the thinner concentration.You can leave it in longer I would think.On soaking how long you let em dry.I remember having trouble with 60/40 concentrations bleeding out/through when not dry enough.I live near the beach.Things don't dry well here once the heat goes off.
I always where the respirator made for the specific chemical I might use.I know it may not be protecting me from 100 percent of all the bad stuff.But I try I have seen the results of what could happen.Now if could just quit smoking..As far as being a perfectionist It's just what happens to me.For instance when I wash the car I say only going to waste a 1/2 hr.doing it.Three hrs later I'm putting the wax away.

[PNG]

Originally Posted by Tagger

I pre heat my plugs 20min 200-225 ...acid brush my (thinner than water) CPES on them and syringe it thru the middle .. Sucs right in ,, bone dry next day.. no noticible weight gain .. Although our methods are different I think Larry's right again ... 24 hrs.. way over kill ... why not just use pressure treated ?

Me...
CPES in a ziplock bag. Soak for whatever time you want. Different woods different soaktime. Different plugs different soak time.
When 1st soak is done zip up bag keep cool, next day a quick dip in the pool and you are done.