good article for all the wall st haters

[RIJIMMY]

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-bud...-Stirs-Outrage

[Joe]

http://emac.blogs.foxbusiness.com/20...ks-are-coming/

[RIJIMMY]

and they'll be for 30 people out of the 500,000 that work in the industry

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

and they'll be for 30 people out of the 500,000 that work in the industry

True, but those seemingly smallish numbers account for much of the mayhem that took place. The buck stops at the CEO's and they will hopefully be held accountable. The boards are equally to blame too, given the conflicts of interest that are/were in place. One person can sit on mulitiple boards and provided they reciprocate with other companies boards, they can set and approve the huge salaries/bonuses for poor performance, etc and receive the same. All the while Joe stockholder foots the bill.
Bbbbbutttttttt, these folks(fiancial companies) are not unlike drug dealers, meaning there's addiction/demand for what they are selling. Enter the irresponsible/unknowing consumers AKA "drug users" who are equally to blame for this mess.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

and they'll be for 30 people out of the 500,000 that work in the industry

Are the 500,000 possibly guilty? No? Then your point is moot.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Are the 500,000 possibly guilty? No? Then your point is moot.

-spence

my point - stop the need to point fingers and criminalize without understanding. the country is running around decrying evil wall street, why? it was ignorant and stupid of Obama to point the finger at Wall St. Did you read that JP Morgan didnt want the baliout money, the government forced it on them!

I was hoping our new president was a bright guy, but then again he is a lawyer and using his rationale, all lawyers are scum, talk about shameful.

[RIJIMMY]

Heres my analogy whihc seldome works out here, but here goes.

99.9% of the people that see the movie Jaws, come away saying the movie is about an evil shark that terrorizes a beach community. As a fisherman, I know that shark is just doing what sharks do, hunting and eating. It is not bad. When people get in the water, they're in the sharks territory and are potenital victims. So who do you blame for the deaths? The shark? The people who were swimming? Or the the town officials that should have banned swimming?

Right now what you are seeing is equivalent in the movie to all the yahoos in the water going out to kill all the sharks. But now its Wall St. And like in the movie, there will be useless slaughter and will set us back even further while we pursue the perceived villians.
The guilty MUST be punished, but lets make it a smart process and not victimize the hundreds of thousands of innocent "sharks" that keep this countyr working , create creative retirement and educational savings products and provide a critical service for the world. Without them, all you have is the government and social security.

[Bronko]

but then again he is a lawyer and using his rationale, all lawyers are scum, talk about shameful.[/QUOTE]

Stupid statement. Just a re-direction of anger from YOUR sector which is finally under much needed scrutiny. Nothing like a good cleansing of an industry that has it's own fair share of scumbags as well.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Bronko

but then again he is a lawyer and using his rationale, all lawyers are scum, talk about shameful.

Stupid statement. Just a re-direction of anger from YOUR sector which is finally under much needed scrutiny. Nothing like a good cleansing of an industry that has it's own fair share of scumbags as well.[/QUOTE]

I was using his rationale of labeling an entire industry, based on some scumbags. I dont really think that.

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Stupid statement. Just a re-direction of anger from YOUR sector which is finally under much needed scrutiny. Nothing like a good cleansing of an industry that has it's own fair share of scumbags as well.

I was using his rationale of labeling an entire industry, based on some scumbags. I dont really think that.[/QUOTE]


Did I just commit conservative on conservative crime?

[The Dad Fisherman]

I think that article is more about hurt feelings than destroying wall st.....

If I'm not mistaken the reason these people are being let go is because their companies...., after they cut out the soy milk budget, free office supplies, and Bonuses down to a meager $112,000 a year,..... do not have the money to retain them. NOT because we are Blaming them for the Crisis. Now if the Big shots in the Big office would like to maybe roll back some of their multi million dollar stock options and bonuses into the company to retain these people and grow their business then maybe some of them can stay.

Now isn't it up to the companies to retain the best and lose the rest.....and if the rest wants to continue working on Wall st. they need to re-assert themselves and rise to the top, through Training and self sacrifice.

I feel bad for anybody that gets laid off...but why is Wall St any different from Home Depot or any of the other companies that had to lay off thousands.

I'm pretty sure that is Capitalism at work....The Cream rises to the Top.

[RIJIMMY]

you just misinterpretted my statment. I guess without Rove or Limbaugh to tell us how to think, we're kind of lost.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I think that article is more about hurt feelings than destroying wall st.....

If I'm not mistaken the reason these people are being let go is because their companies...., after they cut out the soy milk budget, free office supplies, and Bonuses down to a meager $112,000 a year,..... do not have the money to retain them. NOT because we are Blaming them for the Crisis. Now if the Big shots in the Big office would like to maybe roll back some of their multi million dollar stock options and bonuses into the company to retain these people and grow their business then maybe some of them can stay.

Now isn't it up to the companies to retain the best and lose the rest.....and if the rest wants to continue working on Wall st. they need to re-assert themselves and rise to the top, through Training and self sacrifice.

I feel bad for anybody that gets laid off...but why is Wall St any different from Home Depot or any of the other companies that had to lay off thousands.

I'm pretty sure that is Capitalism at work....The Cream rises to the Top.

agreed, but now the cream will leave because the government will limit how high they can rise to and how much they'll be paid.
I posted the article to demonstrate the stigma assoicated with an industry that very few did anything wrong and are being incorrectly blamed by the need for a convenient scapegoat.

[MakoMike]

Scapegoat is a very good term for what has been going on.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Where's the Cream going to Go?

[Joe]

It's just a "bottom up" crisis, right? Stupid people took out more than they could pay back and that's all there is to it.

I'm quite sure that after they have thier day in court, fiduciary trust - that cornerstone of the investing relationship - will be restored.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Joe

It's just a "bottom up" crisis, right? Stupid people took out more than they could pay back and that's all there is to it.

I'm quite sure that after they have thier day in court, fiduciary trust - that cornerstone of the investing relationship - will be restored.

Ouch...

I may have to compile the "best of Joe Lyons" soon. Of couse I'll add my own value so it won't be your property anymore, but you may be able to make some spare change at the book signings.

-spence

[Slipknot]

I haven't got much understanding of the wall street issues, but I do know this - It's a very difficult time to be self-employed right now with people having no confidence and not spending money. Money makes the world go around , but the merry-go-round stopped and it sucks.

All the chitbums who were greedy either in the banking,wall street,real estate or mortgage loan industries can all go to hell for all I care, screw em all.
When will this country ever learn?

I never did or never want my 401K or retirement to grow too rapidly, I'd rather see it grow steady, I can live without the huge up and down swings.

[Swimmer]

You know whats fiunny in this, Fox reported today that DOJ, justice dept. was going to start coming down hard on all the lawbreakers in the Wall Street mess. Then a couple of hours later a talking head from Obama's admin said he didn't think the current admin was going to push that issue to hard. So where does Obama get off saying who gets punished in anything or doesn't get punished. I guess it matters if you donate to someones campaign, maybe. I think its all

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

I haven't got much understanding of the wall street issues, but I do know this - It's a very difficult time to be self-employed right now with people having no confidence and not spending money. Money makes the world go around , but the merry-go-round stopped and it sucks.

All the chitbums who were greedy either in the banking,wall street,real estate or mortgage loan industries can all go to hell for all I care, screw em all.
When will this country ever learn?

I never did or never want my 401K or retirement to grow too rapidly, I'd rather see it grow steady, I can live without the huge up and down swings.

Slip, you sure have my sympathy - my wife and I say every day how happy we are that we finally had to euthanize our small business - even though it hurt - a couple of years ago - and we had done well with it.

I look at small businesses now and given the state of the economy, it's gotta be a real tough row to hoe -

For a guy to work hard and have to struggle is a bitter pill when you hear how those slime-balls took the money and ran like thieves in the night without any remorse.

It's small consolation but I've got a feeling they're eventually gonna get theirs the way things are looking.

In the meanwhile try to duck and cover as best you can til this bull**** rolls over us - sooner or later we'll pop back out the other side - hopefully it'll be sooner.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Crafty Angler

For a guy to work hard and have to struggle is a bitter pill when you hear how those slime-balls took the money and ran like thieves in the night without any remorse.

.

Thanks Crafty, I'll get thru somehow.
Maybe it's time for a career change, I sure hope not, I love what I do.

What I'd like to know is where is all the money and where did it go? or are they hording it and not spending it Not all wealthy people are thieves or scum but the ones that are sure do make it difficult on the rest of the world.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Joe

It's just a "bottom up" crisis, right? Stupid people took out more than they could pay back and that's all there is to it.

I'm quite sure that after they have thier day in court, fiduciary trust - that cornerstone of the investing relationship - will be restored.

you havent read a single word I've posted. Many, many factors contributed to the mess and CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS in VERY LARGE COMPANIES that have MAN, MANY, MANY business lines may have committed some type of fraud. You prosecute the individuals, not the industry. If you want to but into Wall St as scapegoats, go ahead. But realize you will miss some of the key lessons and ones that are not learned are doomed to be repeated. And it appears the savior Obama is buying into it too. By the way, may want to check the resume of the secretary of the treasury, I bet you'll find most of the names you are blaming on it.

[Fishpart]

I agree there is excess, but the Democrats are the root cause of the problem by hauling the bank execs in and forcing them to lend money to people who couldn't pay it back and in the process everone else piled on. Then they said (either Frank or Dodd who both sit ont he Senate Banking Comittee) "Don't worry you don't need the same level of equity because this is backed up by Fannie and Freddie" mean while Wall Streeters created a new security backed up by the US Gvt based on the previous statement and low and behold as people start to default there is a crisis.

We wouldn't be in this situation if the Government didn't mess with the free market.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Where's the Cream going to Go?

Example -

Bill is a Harvard Grad and works in sales for JP Morgan, his base salary is 100K, he travels 4 days a week, works weekends smoozing clients. He is an excellent salesmen and usually takes home an additional 500K in "bonus" money for the commissions on his sales. He couldnt tell you what a mortgage backed securty is becasue he sells bank custody services and nothing to do with the current crisis.
Take away Bills bonus and he makes 100K per year, factor in all the travel and weekends, and stress, Bill might make $25 an hour.

For 100k a year, Bill can go work for Brigham and Williams hospital as an adminsitrator for drug companies. His education more that qualifies him for the job, his salary will be 100K, but he leaves work at 5, is home every weekend and the stress is much less.

Bill took the job from Lenny, who graduated from UVM, as was not as polished as Bill. Lenny is now unemplyed. All the "good" jobs are now filled by people with ivy league degrees. Also unemploed is Bill's nanny, Bill's landscaper. Bill quit his golf club, quit his health club, sold his boat, etc.

But since Bill's wife does not work, he is now eligble for Obama's stimulus plan! He will receive a check for $1000 ! All is good in America!

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Karl F

"stupid people that borrowed more than they could pay back"...well yes Joe...but...dammit...STUPID lenders that lent it to them as well, just as guilty, in my book...whatever happened to banks that actually looked at the property, verified peoples income and debts, and based the desicion to lend on that!!....the greed of getting the "commsion on the loan"...the interest flowing....crippled the people that borrowed..and ultimitly the sham institutions that wrote the notes...and the high limit high interest credit cards..the EZ money, spend it mentality...dug us the huge hole, and it will take a long time to dig out of it...prolly longer than i have left on this planet....



gonna get worse, before it starts to get better, i think....

Right on Big K, I think De-Regulation began this whole mess, those who passed that bill and allowed it to happen are the culprits, all they saw was dollar signs for themselves = GREED!
It makes me sick.

There was verification and scrutinization back in December of 1988 when I bought my house, they looked at 2 years income, I had to show my savings of how I came up with the down payment(which was from hard work ,sacrificing and the tailend of a good economy) I didn't buy a house I couldn't afford,most people are responsible like that, but the past years some allow others to sway them and they end up with a mortgage they can't pay. I didn't trade up to some house I would have liked, I'd rather live within my means than be in debt. I'll probably live in this house all my life now. There was no first time homebuyer programs when I bought, but soon after there were plenty.
De-regulation was a huge mistake, it's time to fix the mess not form big government to spend more and more money we don't have. I thought the bailout was supposed to be for the housing crisis why are the polititions tacking on all sorts of programs to how the money is doled out? This country is whacked! We elect these nitwits and they get away without accountability. Maybe I'll move to Canada

[The Dad Fisherman]

Maybe Bill only gets $250k a year bonus and instead of $500k and sticks it out with JP Morgan....things turn around and Bill goes back to normalcy after a few years. Your article just said the Bonuses went down....not that they were eliminated.

Let's look at another Scenario...We'll take an IT guy and will Call him "Kevin". Kevin works for a company where he is the Only server/network guy there.

Kevin works until 3 am some nights fixing the servers and databases of people like Bill who don't know how to play well with their equipment. Some mornings Kevin's home phone rings from the Office in the UK and wakes his wife...he goes in at 4 AM to fix problems for these people. Kevin Works Weekends. Kevin does not make close to $100k a year and he does not recieve a Bonus, to help with the added stress of Weekends, late nights and early morning hours as well as the responsibility of all of the Corporate data.

Kevin keeps network running at over 99% availability for 7 years....only misses 1 day of work in said 7 years. Kevin then gets laid off so Company doesn't have to spend $40k on new server room, Bill continues to make his $500k Bonus.

Kevin has NO sympathy for Bill, Lenny, Bill's nanny, Bill's landscaper...or the employees at the Marina, Health or Golf Clubs. Kevin worries about his wife and kids....period

if Bill decides to Go to Brigham and Womens to be an administrator then So be It.....he can also go to any number of Companies, Even other Investment firms that will appreciate his Cream of the Crop Status, and do Sales and work hard to keep his lifestyle.....Once Again Capitalism at Work.

[RIJIMMY]

all good points, but my response is based on limiting bonuses and salaries for Wall St. It has downstream implications and punishes those that had nothing to with the downturn. All though you have no sympathy for Bill's nanny, etc, you WILL be paying for them via the bailout. I think its better to have them work vs have them receive $.

My advice for Kevin is to get out of IT. Its a thankless job.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Kevin is too old and been doing it to long to get out of IT....

Will the Stimulus package pay to retrain him?

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Kevin is too old and been doing it to long to get out of IT....

Will the Stimulus package pay to retrain him?

Not if you're white..............

[Joe]

Obama just announced salary and bonus restrictions for employees of companies taking TARP money. I guess he did not read anything RIJimmy wrote either.