Heat setting Createx Airbrush paint?

[numbskull]

I'm pretty sure this system three stuff adheres better during application (ie less fish eyes) if the plug has been heat set after painting, though it adheres so poorly that ain't saying much.

[PNG]

Originally Posted by numbskull

I'm pretty sure this system three stuff adheres better during application (ie less fish eyes) if the plug has been heat set after painting, though it adheres so poorly that ain't saying much.

upol as a scratch should help. ET works better IMO.
Ok > Heat plug for a time before spraying w/createx

[togue]

I can sympathize with this one big time. I made a batch of lures airbrushed with Createx last year that I was pretty happy with until they peeled clean down to the primer layer after taking several nice stripers in a row one night during the spring run. When I say peeled, I mean sloughing off clean leaving behind perfect virgin primer that looked like it had never been painted over. To this day I keep one sitting on top of my computer monitor just to remind me so I don't make this mistake again....

When it happened it really set me back, since I did my research, carefully selected my materials, and thought I had this nailed. After the paint failed I can't tell you how much time I spent looking into this all over the place, emailing and even talking directly with the folks that make Createx, etc.

I even switched over to AutoAir because they claimed it was in a different base that supposedly air cures without heat. That may be true if you permeat it with automotive grade urethane clear coats to seal it as the makers intended, but I can tell you first hand if you put in on top of an oil based primer and then use an epoxy like E-Tex for your finish clear coat, the paint will soften and it will slip off your lure like a Coney Island white fish as soon as you get a nick in it to let the water in - the paint layer s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g up water like one of those freaking Sham-Wows!

The long and short of it is none of these water based acrylics ever fully cures unless you put heat to it, and I am talking 150F-200F for at least 30 minutes. You need heat to cross-link the molecular bonds in the polymer base, which is how the acrylic permanently sets and becomes waterproof. I did the dunk and soak test to confirm it, get it wet months later and it rubs right off. The manufacturer also confirmed it.

Good news is if you can bake it, it holds up like iron. To prove this I have a pencil popper I fished hard August-October with well over 200 stripers landed, banged it off the rocks, beat on it every chance I could, even soaked it in a bucket over many a night. It is now battered veteran, worn down to the bare wood in too many spots to count, and none of the paint has come off even when I try and rub it off.

Only problem I now have is this baking stinks up the house when I use the oven in my kitchen - Yeah, my wife isn't too cool about that either. Now I am looking for another way to do this, but I don't want to run 220V into the man cave for an oven....supposedly heat lamps like they use in autobody shops also work, but that seems too much like a fire waiting to happen.

Larry, I have to hand it to you - your work is primo. I love the action your BigFish lures put out, and your finish is second to none, but I have to say I just don't know how you get Createx to work as well as you do. After watching your airbrushing demo at Plugfest last year, I certainly respect your talent. It must be the primer you are using, or some other secret sauce I haven't figured out yet.

Cheers!

[BigFish]

Thanks for the compliments but no "secret sauce" here! I do let the plugs dry for 48 hours before they get cleared. I have never had an issue ever, not once. I have a plug that was lost and found 5 weeks later wrapped around a potline in the water off Cutty. The plug was of course rock battered and most of the paint and primer had been rubbed off to bare wood by the rocks but not all of it! What remained was still hard as a rock! I have plugs in my bag that have fished 4-5 seasons now and they hold up well! The primer I use is simply the Zinseer Gold Cover Stain in the spray cans! Its great! Spray, let dry and sand.....then paint. Great adhesion for sure with the Createx! I bought some of the Auto Air Paint a few months ago but have yet to get a chance to try it.....how do you like it??

[Tagger]

Some really good stuff in here.. No matter what I'm using for paints , (rattle cans ,,createx,,) I try to keep it thin .. I think some peoples different results might be the thickness thier applying the materials . maybe

[togue]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Thanks for the compliments but no "secret sauce" here! I do let the plugs dry for 48 hours before they get cleared. I have never had an issue ever, not once. I have a plug that was lost and found 5 weeks later wrapped around a potline in the water off Cutty. The plug was of course rock battered and most of the paint and primer had been rubbed off to bare wood by the rocks but not all of it! What remained was still hard as a rock! I have plugs in my bag that have fished 4-5 seasons now and they hold up well! The primer I use is simply the Zinseer Gold Cover Stain in the spray cans! Its great! Spray, let dry and sand.....then paint. Great adhesion for sure with the Createx! I bought some of the Auto Air Paint a few months ago but have yet to get a chance to try it.....how do you like it??

I see a couple of differences here which may be a source of problems for folks like me.

First, I use the Zinnser Cover Stain, gold can oil base, but NOT the spray can version. I cut it 60/40 Zinnser/Mineral Spirits, then dip coat to prime, drip dry for 1 week. Second, it is posible the failed paint was a bit thick, since I was experimenting with multicolor different blending schemes.

It seems there is some conflicting info on the heat set issue. I have dug through all the "application guides" in painful detail, crawled through sites dedicated to automotive painting with water solubles, been back and forth with the manufacturer, etc., and it is true, they all need the application of heat to truely cure at the chemical level. The need to do so is somewhat application dependent. The top clear coat will soak into the paint like a sponge just like epoxy soaks into a sheet of fiberglass, and if the clear coat is water resistant so will be the paint layer, in theory anyway as long as it isn't put on too thick. Question is though, how much is "too thick".

On the surface AutoAir claims to be in a different water soluble acrylic formulation that can air cure without heat, but if you dig deeper both AutoAir and Createx need heat for the polymer chains to cross link and become fully water resistant. If left without a waterproof overcoat, after a good soak you can rub or wipe them right off even months after you spray them on. I know, I have tried this repeatedly.

So Larry, maybe without realizing it your "secret sauce" is just the combination of primer and clear coat you are using. Whatever it is, I do not dispute how well it works for you, for you surely do obtain first rate results!

By the way, I was using a heat gun to dry between coats even when this occured. I don't think it puts out enough heat to cure the lures based on the application guides I've seen. Still comes off in water if you soak it. I know a lot of other guys have no problem with the hair dryer method, some of the guys I know and have fished with have done it for years and they have no problems. Everybody's technique is a little different, kind of like fishing....I am just too paranoid now.

With my experience, it could be that I rushed it and the primer wasn't fully dry on that batch, maybe the paint hadn't cured long enough, or who knows what else, but it isn't something I want to have repeat. For now, it is a good long air dry between all coats (sealer, primer, paint, and clear coat) followed by a heat set for all of my lures. Nothing like seeing your nice paint job come off the lure like a model airplane decal slips off its transfer sheet! Once was enough for me.

Great suggestions for the different drying boxes. If I could afford it, I'd get a profesional made drying box, but not for now. I have thought through all the different ideas for making my own drying box with lights or a toaster oven in it for a heat source, but I worried too much about poor temperature control and the possibility of starting a fire.....

Is the spring run started yet???? I know I am ready.

[PNG]

togue a very nice, well explained reply.

Thats it is exactly how I understood the workings of createx after doing what you did, RESEARCH & READING

Nice job.

Didnt Krispy youse to say sumptin about reading...back when he said things

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by togue

. I have thought through all the different ideas for making my own drying box with lights or a toaster oven in it for a heat source, but I worried too much about poor temperature control and the possibility of starting a fire.....

I'm in the same boat. The regular oven worked fine, the toaster oven very poorly (? too uneven heat), the idea of a heated box in the basement leaves me nervous. Been looking for a beat up lab oven close by (shipping them is costly). It never ends.

[togue]

Originally Posted by numbskull

I'm in the same boat. The regular oven worked fine, the toaster oven very poorly (? too uneven heat), the idea of a heated box in the basement leaves me nervous. Been looking for a beat up lab oven close by (shipping them is costly). It never ends.

Looks like we think alike, I've been looking for a cheap used lab oven myself, but no luck so far....

Larry, as for the AutoAir, I like the color selction but it isn't as forgiving as the Createx. You need to cut it with one of their Flash Reducers, make sure you get the *Fast* version, not the *Medium* one. Watch your pressures and needle settings, put it down light and cleanliness is an issue as it tends to form waterspot spots. Also, it takes a lot of coats to do it right, you can't cover in just one spray.

[EricW]

Originally Posted by numbskull

I'm in the same boat. The regular oven worked fine, the toaster oven very poorly (? too uneven heat), the idea of a heated box in the basement leaves me nervous. Been looking for a beat up lab oven close by (shipping them is costly). It never ends.

I've got a Bravetti, tabletop convection oven that I think would be perfect for this. I use mine for food, but would be worth looking for at yard sales etc or any other 2 rack toaster oven. I know people who have a 2 rack toaster oven and they hate it because it never heats up and basically doesn't toast. Sounds perfect for lure curing.... Mine heats up really slowly and takes forever to heat up, but maintains nice heat way better than a toaster oven. plus the convection feature would be nice. It makes perfect cookies. It is about 18" wide and 16 or so tall, fits 2 9x13 brownie pans it it. Nice portable size.

[Slipknot]

I thought the Auto-air was supposed to be heat-set??? That's what I do when I use it.

I use a heat gun and am careful

for the regular createx I use a hair dryer