stimulus bill ????

[RIROCKHOUND]

OK,
I don't have a lot of time right now to go through and debate point by point. I grabbed some of the lines from the article you posted Buckman, and bolded a few that directly relate to jobs. I agree that there is some crap in here, but there is a lot of good as well.

A main goal of education spending in the stimulus bill is to help keep teachers on the job. Nearly 600,000 jobs in elementary and secondary schools could be eliminated by state budget cuts over the next three years, according to a study released this past week by the University of Washington. Fewer teachers means higher class sizes, something that districts are scrambling to prevent.

Highways repaved for the first time in decades. Century-old waterlines dug up and replaced with new pipes. Aging bridges, stressed under the weight of today's SUVs, reinforced with fresh steel and concrete.

But the $90 billion is a mere down payment on what's needed to repair and improve the country's physical backbone. And not all economists agree it's an effective way to add jobs in the long term, or stimulate the economy. OK, I agree that long-term it may not be a solution, but someone will have to do this work, right?


The package includes $20 billion aimed at "green" jobs to make wind turbines, solar panels and improve energy efficiency in schools and federal buildings. It includes $6 billion in loan guarantees for renewable energy projects as well as tax breaks or direct grants covering 30 percent of wind and solar energy investments. Another $5 billion is marked to help low-income homeowners make energy improvements. I am a huge proponent of this. Who wouldn't be. Even if you don't believe in the negative impacts of carbon emissions, by creating our own energy we are decreasing the amount of foreign oil we need, which improves national security and has other environmental benefits, namely, less oil, coal and nat'l gas being removed from the ground and transported

The package includes $9.2 billion for environmental projects at the Interior Department and the Environmental Protection Agency. The money would be used to shutter abandoned mines on public lands, to help local governments protect drinking water supplies, and to erect energy-efficient visitor centers at wildlife refuges and national parks.

The Interior Department estimates that its portion of the work would generate about 100,000 jobs over the next two years.

The compromise bill doles out more than $3.7 billion for police programs, much of which is set aside for hiring new officers.

An additional $1 billion is set aside to hire local police under the Community Oriented Policing Services program. The program, known as COPS grants, paid the salaries of many local police officers and was a "modest contributor" to the decline in crime in the 1990s, according to a 2005 government oversight report. Both programs had all been eliminated during the Bush administration.


I took a few minutes to do this, to ask YOU guys a question.

IF this stimulus plan is not the answer, what is? How do you think we should go about turning around the economy and creating jobs, locally and federally?

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

OK


I took a few minutes to do this, to ask YOU guys a question.

IF this stimulus plan is not the answer, what is? How do you think we should go about turning around the economy and creating jobs, locally and federally?

I agree with the HOUND, instead of WHINING about the bill.
Tell, do tell what you outspoken leaders of this board, recommend this country do to get us back on the track?

NO pissin, just the facts.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by striperman36

I agree with the HOUND, instead of WHINING about the bill.
Tell, do tell what you outspoken leaders of this board, recommend this country do to get us back on the track?

NO pissin, just the facts.

Look, there's no doubt that you can spend 800 billion dollars and create a bunch of jobs. That's not going to fix the mess we are in.

You can double spending on a bunch of programs and help some people out. That won't fix the country.

Rolling back the clock on welfare reform that Reagan and Clinton worked hard on won't help the country either.


Like it or not tax breaks work...Handing out money will not. It's not even real money they are handing out. It's debt that your kids will have to pay.

You have to give people insentive to work hard. An ability to grow there companies.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Like it or not tax breaks work...

Yes, the GOP magic "cure all" prescribed for any and all situations. Recession? Cut taxes...Growth? Cut taxes...Terrorism? Cut taxes...The clap? Cut taxes...

If tax breaks are always so good why don't we just eliminate taxes?

Also, doesn't the bill as is contain hundreds of billions in tax breaks? Shouldn't these work to stimulate the economy while the other spending keeps the ship right side up?

Again, I think there is wasteful spending in the bill, but a lot of line items, for instance spending to help communities not have to fire teachers and police, is probably needed, but the GOP is branding this as Liberal Pork.

-spence

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

Again, I think there is wasteful spending in the bill, but a lot of line items, for instance spending to help communities not have to fire teachers and police, is probably needed, but the GOP is branding this as Liberal Pork. -spence

Which is happening already in RI... maybe some of that can be blamed on the unions, but certainly not all of it!

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Yes, the GOP magic "cure all" prescribed for any and all situations. Recession? Cut taxes...Growth? Cut taxes...Terrorism? Cut taxes...The clap? Cut taxes...

If tax breaks are always so good why don't we just eliminate taxes?

Also, doesn't the bill as is contain hundreds of billions in tax breaks? Shouldn't these work to stimulate the economy while the other spending keeps the ship right side up?

Again, I think there is wasteful spending in the bill, but a lot of line items, for instance spending to help communities not have to fire teachers and police, is probably needed, but the GOP is branding this as Liberal Pork.

-spence

What tax breaks mean is that the govornment takes less of OUR money. That means we can spend it how we want. Hire more people, remodel a room, buy a car. It's our money and if you can argue they need more of it and you feel better about them spending it, then nobody is stopping you from writing a check.

Claiming the loss fire fighters, policemen and teachers is the oldest liberal con in the book. I don't buy it. I'm from Ma. You can't drive through town without seeing fifteen cops working details. Get rid of all the mandated special education for every little problem and you will have plenty of teachers. Reform emergency personel sick pay policy and you will have plenty of firefighters. If you don't want to reform any thing here, then there are plenty of places you can cut. We don't need to increase funding over current levels.

IMO over 1/2 of this bill is money that we don't need to spend right now. We simple don't have it. It's not any more complicated then that. If you fund something now that you can't afford you have to get rid of it later. It's economics 101. WE DON"T HAVE THE $$$$.

[Nebe]

so buckman.. how does a tax break help a poor guy who cant find a job?

Its proven that an owner of a business isnt always going to take that tax break and create a job, he is usually going to pocket the profits while he can..

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

so buckman.. how does a tax break help a poor guy who cant find a job?

Its proven that an owner of a business isnt always going to take that tax break and create a job, he is usually going to pocket the profits while he can..

How did you start your business? Govornment handout? Maybe you talk the game but really don't pay the actual tax amount you should ( a little cash on the side never hurt)

It works like this. Maybe if you pay less on taxes you can afford to hire someone to clean your studio so you can do what you do best. Maybe that guy on the corner that has no job.

Bottom line. The rich guys money will get spent. I trust him more then Pelousi.

Once again if you want to pay more then by all means do.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by buckman

Look, there's no doubt that you can spend 800 billion dollars and create a bunch of jobs. That's not going to fix the mess we are in.

You can double spending on a bunch of programs and help some people out. That won't fix the country.

Rolling back the clock on welfare reform that Reagan and Clinton worked hard on won't help the country either.


Like it or not tax breaks work...Handing out money will not. It's not even real money they are handing out. It's debt that your kids will have to pay.

You have to give people insentive to work hard. An ability to grow there companies.

Thats a pretty lame response based on all the other crap you been posting here. maybe you should actually read the bill inside of just complaining about it.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Thats a pretty lame response based on all the other crap you been posting here. maybe you should actually read the bill inside of just complaining about it.

I read the bill. Did you? My opinion is based on my believe. You can call it crap if you want. That's your opinion. Granted, it doesn't have as much substance as your response, but again,that's my opinion.

My feeling about the bill and the process is:

It is too based on the believe that the govornment can increase it's size and spend our way out of the current situation.

We just don't have the money!

It is full of earmarks...

The people that will be dolling out the money are selfserving, currupt, hypocrits that stuffed this bill full of everything they tried to pass in the past. This is a point that you fail to except or you are ok with.

The bill was written based on emotion and not economics.


Bottom line.... The process was just plain wrong and this bill is a joke. Thats just my opinion.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by buckman

I read the bill. Did you? My opinion is based on my believe. You can call it crap if you want. That's your opinion. Granted, it doesn't have as much substance as your response, but again,that's my opinion.

My feeling about the bill and the process is:

It is too based on the believe that the govornment can increase it's size and spend our way out of the current situation.

We just don't have the money!

It is full of earmarks...

The people that will be dolling out the money are selfserving, currupt, hypocrits that stuffed this bill full of everything they tried to pass in the past. This is a point that you fail to except or you are ok with.

The bill was written based on emotion and not economics.


Bottom line.... The process was just plain wrong and this bill is a joke. Thats just my opinion.

So what's your solution rather than just your complaint.

I agree we can't afford to create a larger government, however at this juncture in history in the past, governments normally take action, Keynesian Economics .
Reagan was the one recent exception to the stimulus mantra, amid harsh criticism on the hill Reagan reduced the size of the federal government and cut taxes across the board.


I do agree that tax cuts have proven to invigorate the economy compared to stimulus handouts.

Would you be happier if the government did NOTHING? Sure sounds that way

[buckman]

Originally Posted by striperman36

So
Would you be happier if the government did NOTHING? Sure sounds that way

YES, I WOULD....and I'm not the only one.