Things Learned

[Zeno]

one thing that surprised the hell of me was just how good were 9 inch Tsunami shads in the inlets. I wish I knew this before I wrote what I did but better late then never
Another thing that I learned,even though I have had this feeling about this for years.............even though I had most success with "numbers" when a wind was strong in my face the better fish almost always came on calm conditions and wind in my back.

[Clogston29]

sometimes a fast retrieve is better, even at night

you always hear and read stuff like "go a slow as you can, and then go slower"

slow is good most of the time, but in the right conditions, fast can really slay them

[fishaholic18]

I learned...Don't trust anyone...

[Mr. Krinkle]

Not to horse a big fish with a tight drag. I lost a nice fish on a jetty one night this year because I didn't let it run and tire out, I was so concerened with getting it to the rocks. When the fish turned to go around the other side of the jetty I started to tug on it to turn it back my way and pulled the lure right out of its mouth. My friend looked at me and said "how tight is your friggin drag?" I said to him "I always fish with a tight drag." He simply replied "it just cost you a 40!"

[steve]

What Back beach and Zeno said about wind is 100% true. I am definitley fishing the shads more this season. They are deadly in current!

[RIROCKHOUND]

NW wind is your friend, thats for sure!

Steve, we call fishing with shads a nd jigs Plan B. You know where!


Probably the best thing I've learned; there are NO FACTS in fishing. too many perfect nights on the water with everything but FISH....

[2na]

Zeno, could you clarify as to what you mean by stating that BB's input that 'flat water with wind at your back is good, don't believe what you read in the books about needing white water ' and 'I used to boat fish alot on the outer cape and noticed many, many nights the fish would be just out of range for the surf guys unless there was a strong SW wind' 'is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts'. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I happen to strongly agree with both of these points. I have also found that you don't need white water (white water is a very good thing, but not needed) and I have found that flat water with the wind at your back is good, especially on the back beach - it is one of my favorite conditions (and if you are not familiar with the back beach, sw is at your back in most spots). I've learned to take advantage of gaining even more distance in such conditions by tying up some larger than normal dressed hooks just for those times - they act like a kite. And back before seal when you could flip eels the extra distance of a strong wind at your back made a big difference in reaching fish/covering more water. As far as his statement regarding the fish being just out of range, over the years I have worked hard at lengthening my casting distance to get to these just out of distance fish. One of my favorite tricks to get that extra distance is to tie on a 3 oz bank sinker trailing a fly and letting it rip - always good for an extra 30 yards. In a place where distance is king and no one else can reach that far, your offering is the only game in town. This is also why over the last 5 years or so we have seen the proliferation of the kayak bait droppers up near Race Point. If you are not familiar, these guys kayak bait out a couple hundred yards to reach the fish, drop it, return to shore and put the rod in a sand spike - and they do well. This tactic illustrates BB's point - these fish are out of reach for a surfcast, but still relatively close to the beach.

Would you be kind enough to explain why you feel his statement is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts? I'd be interested in your point of view because I believe his assessments to be accurate, and if I'm missing something I would like to be enlightened.

The one thing that I've learned about fishing for striped bass over the years is the importance of asking questions of other fishermen. I was fortunate enough to have one of the late old timers take me under his wing when I first got on the beach, and the knowledge he had about conditions, situations and history was astounding. If I didn't understand why or why not something was happening I could always ask him about it.

The second most important thing I've learned is to know a few areas close to home very very well rather than covering large areas in search of.

[Pete F.]

When fishing in current and rocks, if I'm casting in the right place sometimes I hit the rocks. If I never hit them I'm not casting close enough.

[Zeno]

It is dificult to make general statements about fishing throughout the whole Northeast.
We in NY live on white water for most of the year as we are befitted greatly by SW flow most of the year. Out neighbors which are cast away in NJ are not so fortunate in this regard. I felt that bb post was stating that some of us advocate that you must have white water which is far from the truth. I made numerous trips to Cutty over the years and I am still yet to see white water....yet fish are plenty.And back bay casters wont see a white water unless the tsunami rolls through. Yet they all catch plenty of fish.
A lot of places in NY , in the daytime when water is flat your daytime catching will go down dramatically even during fall run
For some reason the big girls seem to prefer calmer water which usually coincides with a wind in your back

[2na]

I can see where you could get that drift re: white water from his post, and I see on your subsequent post you state 'the better fish almost always came on calm conditions and wind in my back' - thanks for clearing it up.

Just about the only general statements about fishing throughout the whole Northeast I can think of would be that water is wet and sometimes fish are in it - each area has its own unique characteristics which may be diametrically opposed to other areas. I see where you are coming from.

[MAKAI]

Originally Posted by 2na

Zeno, could you clarify as to what you mean by stating that BB's input that 'flat water with wind at your back is good, don't believe what you read in the books about needing white water ' and 'I used to boat fish alot on the outer cape and noticed many, many nights the fish would be just out of range for the surf guys unless there was a strong SW wind' 'is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts'. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I happen to strongly agree with both of these points. I have also found that you don't need white water (white water is a very good thing, but not needed) and I have found that flat water with the wind at your back is good, especially on the back beach - it is one of my favorite conditions (and if you are not familiar with the back beach, sw is at your back in most spots). I've learned to take advantage of gaining even more distance in such conditions by tying up some larger than normal dressed hooks just for those times - they act like a kite. And back before seal when you could flip eels the extra distance of a strong wind at your back made a big difference in reaching fish/covering more water. As far as his statement regarding the fish being just out of range, over the years I have worked hard at lengthening my casting distance to get to these just out of distance fish. One of my favorite tricks to get that extra distance is to tie on a 3 oz bank sinker trailing a fly and letting it rip - always good for an extra 30 yards. In a place where distance is king and no one else can reach that far, your offering is the only game in town. This is also why over the last 5 years or so we have seen the proliferation of the kayak bait droppers up near Race Point. If you are not familiar, these guys kayak bait out a couple hundred yards to reach the fish, drop it, return to shore and put the rod in a sand spike - and they do well. This tactic illustrates BB's point - these fish are out of reach for a surfcast, but still relatively close to the beach.

Would you be kind enough to explain why you feel his statement is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts? I'd be interested in your point of view because I believe his assessments to be accurate, and if I'm missing something I would like to be enlightened.

The one thing that I've learned about fishing for striped bass over the years is the importance of asking questions of other fishermen. I was fortunate enough to have one of the late old timers take me under his wing when I first got on the beach, and the knowledge he had about conditions, situations and history was astounding. If I didn't understand why or why not something was happening I could always ask him about it.

The second most important thing I've learned is to know a few areas close to home very very well rather than covering large areas in search of.

Hey I know who started that kayak thing and boy is he sorry.

[2na]

that's what is called the law of unintended consequences, Bobby. And don't flatter yourself, someone else would lowered themselves to it before long.

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by steve

What Back beach and Zeno said about wind is 100% true.

Back Beach and Z ,,, apples and oranges . I believe BB's main squeeze is the canal (world of its own ) and Z's main squeeze is open beaches .. I fish both .. On the beaches I like the 1st day of a front coming in with the wind in my face . The more miserable and harder to cast will soon be forgotten with the hook up of good fish . I've done this multible times over many years ,, not just once. I consider the Canal its own world , somewhat sheltered with alternating east, west currents . Cape ,,mainland side,, fish are caught on both,, and if you don't like the wind in your face go over the other side and it will be on your back . I don't believe its a factor blowing fish in, as much as open beaches. I highly respect both ,,but don't think Z and BB should be comparing notes . I'm 99% shore guy .. I don't think shore and boat guys can relate experiences either.. imho

[gfishermanMTKPT]

TIE DIRECT !!!! thats what i learned and it paid off after a heartbreaking loss two years ago .here what happens when i went direct.wait a minute i gotta figure out how to post pic.

[Zeno]

To some extent what Ed is saying is right. One thing I am constantly being reminded of is just how different the conditions are depending where you fish. I remember speaking at a seminar in CT and I could have talked about poached eggs, it would off have more interest then white water. After all, you don’t see whitewater in CT. So it’s a learning process and you know what, in some ways that is what makes this sport great. I remembered first trip to Cutty, damn, I though I was going to pull my hair out with a weak currents and no white water. Struggled mightily till I attached a rigged eel…just to make sure, I don’t harbor ill will towards bb, he certainly is entitled to his opinion. He knows the areas that he speaks of much better then I do but I think I can hold my own here at home. Besides I am pacifist and the fact that Mr. Phelps just left my house and the smoke has not cleared out yet means nothing

[MikeToole]

One thing I've learned is cold eels are cooperative eels. For years used a mesh bag to carry eels. Now I keep them in a small cooler bag with a small ice pack wrapped in wet newspaper. They seem almost dead while your hooking them but as soon as the hit the water they wake up. Haven't had to deal with an eel ball or the slimmy things wrapped around my arm since. They will last for a couple of days if you keep a fresh ice pack and wet paper.

I would also say most of my bigger fish have come when the water was calm with light winds. This may be because I mainly fish very rocky areas. I think the reason is because it is under these conditions that I can fish eels the best. I can reach the spots I want to cover and you can keep the eels where you want them to be.

[MAKAI]

Originally Posted by 2na

that's what is called the law of unintended consequences, Bobby. And don't flatter yourself, someone else would lowered themselves to it before long.

There is still a secret to that that only I know, and I'm not telling.

[doc]

i have learned to forget the conventional wisdom that only certain plugs work at night...i have been using top water poppers at night for the past 3 years with good succcess...both fast and slow retrieves!

[bart]

one thing i learned is that i'm a lot weirder than most 25 yr olds...

[snake slinger]

the most important thing i learned from puting my time in is you have to put your time in!

[bonefishdick]

The one thing I learned from reading all of the posts so far is I really do know a lot about fishing for strippers. ( That was a Joke)

The most important thing I have learned and what I think we all learn someday if we haven't learned it yet is when we think we have it all figured out, the fish prove you wrong time and time again.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Zeno

that is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts. I usually don't comment on stuff like that as my pail of Preparation H supply is dwindling but i do resent posts that are misleading. I think white water helps me in a lot of ways but it certainly not the only way to catch fish. If that is true, we'd have a hard time in the fall with winds in our back for weeks at the time

Z,

My post wasn't a misrepresentation/misleading. Its what I've experienced from fishing the outer cape,RI, and canal for many years. I fish eels alot and wind at your back is the way to go. An no, you don't need white water by any means, either. In some places its(white water) great to have, like Race Point, but most other places I've fished its just not needed. I stand on my opinion 100%.

Alot of publications/books, etc. imply white water is needed and little heed is paid to fishing the flat water. I know you recently put out a couple books, but I haven't read either of them. My "crap" comment certainly wasn't an admonition of your work, but more a criticism of a thought process people sometimes employ, regardless of where its printed.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

my biggest lesson this year was "loose lips sink ships'' and don't believe any thing you read about fishing.

[likwid]

Fishermen in general are dumber than the fish they pursue.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by bart

one thing i learned is that i'm a lot weirder than most 25 yr olds...

Another progressive disease.

[The Dad Fisherman]

To stay out of the Political Thread when I'm in a Good Mood.....

...and to alway change things up....tried and true is great 80% of the time....but what about the other 20%?

[JoeBass]

Where I flyfish for stripers in Maine knowing not just what holes they may be in , but also exactly where and how to present to them makes ALL the difference. They will hold in very specific spots. I learned this over years, not hours or days. You have to put in the time.

[rphud]

Mr. Phelps...smoke clearing?!?!?!? Here I thought he kept that to dorm parties at large Southern institutions of "higher" learning.

[bart]

Originally Posted by Joe

Another progressive disease.

tell me about it. like i need any other issues

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Zeno

that is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts. I usually don't comment on stuff like that as my pail of Preparation H supply is dwindling but i do resent posts that are misleading. I think white water helps me in a lot of ways but it certainly not the only way to catch fish. If that is true, we'd have a hard time in the fall with winds in our back for weeks at the time

No it's not! It's just Mike's opinion....which he is entitled to.