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Old 02-18-2009, 02:02 PM   #1
Mr. Sandman
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It's not "theory". The optics of the eye are very well known. In addition to the above book read: What fish see: Understanding optics and color shifts for designing lures and flies. by Colin J Kageyama O.D., F.C.O.V.D. This book is a little more technical than Sosins and concentrates more on steelhead than bass, and doesn't explore a lot of night vision, mostly daylight in which they did experiments on bass and they could see different colors, and even fishing line down to 4# test. I also came across a magazine article some time ago the said the same thing written by another Doctor of optometry and I recall he said daytime then can see colors well but nighttime is a different shades of gray world. The fact that fish can't speak has nothing to do with it.

That said, light (colors) and dark (colors) are perceived differently, they just can't differentiate between yellow and say green at night.


Now that I picked it up I am going to re-read this, I forgot how cool this is.
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:15 PM   #2
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Hey, Putski!!!

For chrissakes, look what you started now, goddammit...




......

"There is no royal road to this heavy surf-fishing. With all the appliances for comfort experience can suggest, there is a certain amount of hard work to be done and exposure to be bourne as a part of the price of success." From "Striped Bass," Scribner's Magazine, 1881.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:58 PM   #3
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It's not "theory".

thank you very much MR Sandman for that clarification !


Right ON
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:08 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman View Post
It's not "theory". The optics of the eye are very well known. In addition to the above book read: What fish see: Understanding optics and color shifts for designing lures and flies. by Colin J Kageyama O.D., F.C.O.V.D. This book is a little more technical than Sosins and concentrates more on steelhead than bass, and doesn't explore a lot of night vision, mostly daylight in which they did experiments on bass and they could see different colors, and even fishing line down to 4# test. I also came across a magazine article some time ago the said the same thing written by another Doctor of optometry and I recall he said daytime then can see colors well but nighttime is a different shades of gray world. The fact that fish can't speak has nothing to do with it.

That said, light (colors) and dark (colors) are perceived differently, they just can't differentiate between yellow and say green at night.


Now that I picked it up I am going to re-read this, I forgot how cool this is.
Sandman,
Sorry if I come across in crass manner.I was just stating my opinion in a matter of fact manner..As I usually do.
I meant no disrespect..
While doctors who specialize in optometry will dissect a fish's eye to break down what makes it tick.They can also run all kinds experiments in controlled situations. The conclusions can not considered 100 percent fact.Them same doctors with the fancy Placards whose funding for these experiments come from grants.(This alone can lead to slanted results..)Will be the first to tell ya the same thing.. This makes their claims theoretical ..
I can tell ya a fact..There have been times like Flap noted.At night, when if you did not have a specific odd ball color (Like pink) you where not catching.So in usual fashion, I have question the results of these experts.
To me real life experience trumps doctors hypothesis..
Agian just my opinion.I in no means have any intention of slanting the experts.I just wanted to make a point..

FORE!
It's usually darkest just before it turns Black..
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:40 PM   #5
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Should you always assume its the color of the plug they like first. Maybe its the size,,the way the plug moves .. Who has a bag full of the same plug, just different colors ?. That being said I have witnessed about 50 guys throwing 3 ounce polarises one dawn and only one color catching ... So I know its true, color matters sometimes .. but we shouldn't always assume ,, Oh ,, they like this color ..
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:48 PM   #6
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Some of my thoughts on this matter from past posts:

I was doing some research for an article recently and I found some fascinating information on the specifics of how stripers view their world.

Thanks to the work of Virginia Institute of Marine Science graduate student Andrij Horodysky and faculty adviser Dr. Rich Brill, we now know that the stripers has evolved to see swiftly moving prey in daylight while others, like weakfish, are adapted to see small, sluggish prey at night.

The striper’s color-sensitive cone cells move toward the surface of the retina during daylight hours, and retreat to make room for the contrast-sensitive rod cells at night. This “circadian rhythm” also changes with the seasons.

Horodysky’s research shows that striped bass are most sensitive during daylight hours to a wide range of colors from blue to red, with a peak at chartreuse. They have a flicker fusion frequency of around 50 (similar to the shutter speed in a camera), relatively fast for a fish, which allows them to track large, quick-moving prey like menhaden.

Compared to striped bass, weakfish have slow vision (around 25 cycles per second) and are more sensitive to contrast than color.

Horodysky states, “You’ve got two animals that are competing
for the same food. How do they do it? Stripers use color to see and feed during the day. Weakfish use contrast sensitivity to see at night.”

Another fascinating aspect of Horodysky’s research is that he and his colleagues hypothesize that striped bass are often living in a visual world very different from the one that evolution prepared them for. History indicates that bay systems that stripers thrive in have gradually gotten murkier due to the runoff and the demise of oysters, mussels and aquatic vegetation. This means that although they are adapted to see—large, fast-moving fish like menhaden—they’re actually feeding on crabs, lobsters, and shrimp because they can find them easily in turbid water. The fact that menhaden have been over fished must enter into this equation as well.

In dark or dirty water, I always go for a chartreuse colored offering, now I know it’s effective because it's a color that is right in the middle of a striper’s visual range and it can easily be seen.

Pass me the pearl bomber.

IMHO, I favor pearl over white (the subtle hint of other colors seems to trump straight white…perhaps because so many bait fish have a pearlescent sheen when light reflects off their scales) and black with a little glitter or flash seems to outperform straight black. When it comes to dawn and dusk I personally choose lures with a yellow body and a red head, especially if they are surface plugs or shallow running swimmers; I’ve observed many species of bait fish at this time of peak predation and the low angle of sun reflects off their side and produces a golden glow. I like a red head because I simply feel most lures and flies benefit from a touch of red. What fish, no matter what its coloration, doesn’t show a flash of red when it flairs its gill plates? It has been proven that stripers see a range of colors from red to blue…with chartreuse being right smack in the middle of their range…so when the visibility is horrible and the water is the color of coffee or chocolate I turn to chartreuse, it is the easiest to see color for both humans AND linesiders.

The one exception to my basic MO above occurs when my offering is suppose to mimic a squid, that’s when I turn to bright pink or hot orange. Stripers apparently don’t see ultra violet but weakfish do, therefore if I were targeting squeteague on a cloudy day or at night, I would definitely use lures or flies that had ultra violet highlights.

In fresh water I’ve found that a gold lure with a fluorescent orange stripe is the most effective color combo for every fish I’ve ever gone after…well, except for suckers, hornpout and carp.

I favor action over color any time of the day or night. But, when I need a solid excuse for why I’m not catching fish, it’s always easy to say, “I just didn’t have the right color lure with me.”

Baitfish such as herring, alewives and anchovies are considered “hearing specialists” because their swimbladder, lateral line, and inner ear are all connected and they also have a pair of prootic auditory bullae which acts as pressure-to-motion transducers. This helps explain why when one moves they all move simultaneously. Recently they proved that American Shad can hear ultrasound of 180 kHz and Gulf Menhaden also have ultrasonic hearing. What does this all mean? Don’t drop the tackle box in your tin boat when you’re trying to snag bait, or don’t crank up the Aerosmith tunes or you’ll drive away the fish.

Stripers have medium hearing yet their lateral line can determine the direction of the current and the presence of nearby objects, as well as sense vibration. Their lateral line functions best within the zone nearest the sound source, the inner ear performs best in the far edges of the near field and outward. Their lateral line does not respond directly to the acoustic-pressure component of sound fields. In the case of vibrating sources, the lateral line is only directly stimulated at very short distances from the source where the generated acoustic field behaves like an incompressible flow. Unless your lure or live bait offering is close to the striper it is likely to depend on its inner ear to detect and direct it to the source of the sound. Therefore, in dirty water a popper, spook, or lure that creates a lot of surface splashing and vibration will be first heard, and then “felt” as the striper locks in on it and then strikes.

Bait such as herring, alewives and anchovies have a distinct hearing advantage over stripers however, at periods of low light, and changing lighting conditions like dusk and dawn, the striper’s excellent vision gives them an upper hand (fin).

And yes, stripers spend lot of their time looking up for prey.

And let’s not forget Snell’s Law.

I also love the color of blooberry at night.

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Old 02-18-2009, 05:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish_Eye View Post
. When it comes to dawn and dusk I personally choose lures with a yellow body and a red head, especially if they are surface plugs or shallow running swimmers; I’ve observed many species of bait fish at this time of peak predation and the low angle of sun reflects off their side and produces a golden glow. I like a red head because I simply feel most lures and flies benefit from a touch of red. What fish, no matter what its coloration, doesn’t show a flash of red when it flairs its gill plates? :
I've been listening, thank you
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:29 PM   #8
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I've been listening, thank you

Now your punishing your NIB..

FORE!
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Old 02-19-2009, 06:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish_Eye View Post
...
I also love the color of blooberry at night.
Ahhh...the one thing that's no mystery...

Thanks for taking the time to post that Mike...

I was hoping you weren't off on safari somewhere and would see the thread and weigh in -

"There is no royal road to this heavy surf-fishing. With all the appliances for comfort experience can suggest, there is a certain amount of hard work to be done and exposure to be bourne as a part of the price of success." From "Striped Bass," Scribner's Magazine, 1881.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:49 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Tagger View Post
Should you always assume its the color of the plug they like first. Maybe its the size,,the way the plug moves .. Who has a bag full of the same plug, just different colors ?. That being said I have witnessed about 50 guys throwing 3 ounce polarises one dawn and only one color catching ... So I know its true, color matters sometimes .. but we shouldn't always assume ,, Oh ,, they like this color ..

Of course this is true..There are many variables.Sometimes I'm sure you know, the difference of only a few feet in presentation can make all the difference in the world.
To cut to the chase..
I have seen color matter enough times to know the difference.
With that said I hate buying into it.Like Zeno Noted I think skill should always trump color.but there are times it does matter.I have noticed it as many times in the dark as in the light.

FORE!
It's usually darkest just before it turns Black..
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:17 PM   #11
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I was once at the canal catching small fish on a 3 hook rebel type lure ,,Every cast ,, could barely retrieve and the fish would take the plug .. I took the middle treble off for quick and less messy hook ups and nobody was having it . Fish were clearly visible swimming with the lure ... not a sniff with that middle hook off ..
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