Just a few questions

[RIJIMMY]

Just a few questions

Gas prices are up close to 40 cents nationwide while oil prices continue to go down - Are we to blame Obama? Bush was always blamed

War in Iraq - bad, War in Afghanistan - good. Are there going to be massive peace protests now that Obama is escalating the war in Afghanistan? If not, why not?

Whats our plan for Iraq? The peace protests have stopped, yet the war lingers on?

Despite a message of Hope and an economy based on consumer sentiment, the stock market contiues to decline with every detail of Obama's plan. How come he is not infusing confidence in the economy despite the largest attempts by a government in history?

Can you answer any of the above without saying the following "last 8 years", "Bush", "conservative policies" etc?

these are the questions that go through my mind and I dont watch Fox news, dont listen to Rush Limbaugh, I was cursed with an curious mind, please help me see the light.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Gas prices are up close to 40 cents nationwide while oil prices continue to go down - Are we to blame Obama? Bush was always blamed.

Good Article on the Why's....
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/pri.../gasb0216.html

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

War in Iraq - bad, War in Afghanistan - good. Are there going to be massive peace protests now that Obama is escalating the war in Afghanistan? If not, why not?

There are ALWAYs protests by Somebody...ALWAYS. Myself, I have always felt Afghanistan is where we SHOULD have been in the 1st place...So I won't be among the protesters.

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Whats our plan for Iraq? The peace protests have stopped, yet the war lingers on?

Its been a month...lets see what happens shall we He said he wanted troops out in 16 months....15 to go.

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Despite a message of Hope and an economy based on consumer sentiment, the stock market contiues to decline with every detail of Obama's plan. How come he is not infusing confidence in the economy despite the largest attempts by a government in history?

because Wall St. is Evil.....the Messiah said so.

and I didn't use any of the No-No words

[PaulS]

your first question - I read something about this last week in a newspaper which I never knew. The problem is that what we hear for the average barrell of oil price is based on a type of oil that is not used in the production of gasoline. I believe the oil that we hear about might be Texas something or another while gasoline is made from foreign oil which is now more expensive.

2) Almost everyone realizes that the people responsible for 9/11 were in Afghanistan and not Iraq. Therefore there is support for war there and not Iraq.

I still see protestors every Sat. morning in front of New Haven city hall and on the bridge going over the Saugatuck river in Westport, Ct.

[RIJIMMY]

what are the goals of the war in Afghanistan? Do we plan on establishing a democracy there too? What does a victory look like?

and by protestors, I mean the MASSIVE demostrations at the Repub convention or anti-Bush in other countries. Do you think those will continue?
No people from Afghanistan ever attached America, did they? Isnt that war 2X as un-winnable as Iraq?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

No people from Afghanistan ever attached America, did they??

WTF was 911???? Just because their citizenship was not from Afghanistan...they did train there....

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

WTF was 911???? Just because their citizenship was not from Afghanistan...they did train there....

Ok-
so whats the goal? defeat Al Queda in Afghanistan? The Taliban? who are we fighting there?

9/11 was 8 years ago, is this just late revenge?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Ok-
so whats the goal? defeat Al Queda in Afghanistan? The Taliban? who are we fighting there?

I would say defeat the Taliban, since they sponsored Al Queda and Osama. If I'm not mistaken there has been a resurgence by the taliban in the region.

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

9/11 was 8 years ago, is this just late revenge?

I guess we should just forget about it then


and if you are trying to draw parrallels to Georgies "Late Revenge for Daddy" angle and the fact that these A-Holes slammed planes into buildings on our soil....thats a serious %$%$%$%$ing stretch.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

WTF was 911???? Just because their citizenship was not from Afghanistan...they did train there....

If I'm not mistaken they were Saudis.
How do you know they weren't trained in Saudi Arabia?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by likwid

If I'm not mistaken they were Saudis.
How do you know they weren't trained in Saudi Arabia?

They were....and I think a couple from yemen...which is why I said their citizenship wasn't from there.

and you are right about them training there...I made a fatal mistake and believed what the Bush....er.....I mean the last.....Administration told us. Silly me...

"Supposedly" trained there.....


....and the issue of Osama being there too...

[RIJIMMY]

Im not trying to start anything, just sincere questions.
Afghanistan seem like a larger quagmire than Iraq. Step one in Iraq was get rid of Saddam, ok we did that. Step - 2 set up a democracy and quell the insurgance. Thats a bigger problem.

So whats step 1 in Afghanistan? Defeat the Taliban? There a bunch of wandering tribesmen. How do you defeat them? Whats Step 2.
I think these are valid questions and I am wondering if Obama will get as much international outrage as Bush did.

remember the BIG criticism of Bush/Cheney- they had no plan once they got in there, so whats the plan for Afghanistan?

[RIJIMMY]

Sorry for asking questions Dad. I'll just play like a dumb Democrat and vote YES for war and then later say I was against it.

BTW - did Congress vote on this war? Why is the this war "legal" and Iraq was "illegal"?

[RIJIMMY]

Dad, looks like you'll have to go to war in PAkistan too. That is if your goal is to defeat the Taliban.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/17/asia/17pstan.php

[Tagger]

I'm just letting him settle in, make his moves and look at results .. You were banging nails building the gallows day one .. give the guy a chance ..and yes .. we should still blame Bush for life in general .. He painted us in this corner ..

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Just a few questions

Gas prices are up close to 40 cents nationwide while oil prices continue to go down - Are we to blame Obama? Bush was always blamed

War in Iraq - bad, War in Afghanistan - good. Are there going to be massive peace protests now that Obama is escalating the war in Afghanistan? If not, why not?

Whats our plan for Iraq? The peace protests have stopped, yet the war lingers on?

Despite a message of Hope and an economy based on consumer sentiment, the stock market contiues to decline with every detail of Obama's plan. How come he is not infusing confidence in the economy despite the largest attempts by a government in history?

Can you answer any of the above without saying the following "last 8 years", "Bush", "conservative policies" etc?

these are the questions that go through my mind and I dont watch Fox news, dont listen to Rush Limbaugh, I was cursed with an curious mind, please help me see the light.

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

So whats step 1 in Afghanistan?

#1 burn the poppy fields ,,have a real war on drugs , talk about a stimulus package .. Get our citizens/youth off Heroin,,increase productivity,,Stop cash flow to terrorist..Save health care treating addicts..no addict babys,, prostitution ,,guns,,murder.. We're rotting from the inside out . imho And who's making all the money on OXI in this country .. That drug shouldn't even exist . find Osama and Whitey

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by likwid

If I'm not mistaken they were Saudis.
How do you know they weren't trained in Saudi Arabia?

They were mostly Saudis ,,, they hate us too .

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Tagger

#1 burn the poppy fields ,,have a real war on drugs , talk about a stimulus package .. Get our citizens/youth off Heroin,,increase productivity,,Stop cash flow to terrorist..Save health care treating addicts..no addict babys,, prostitution ,,guns,,murder.. We're rotting from the inside out . imho And who's making all the money on OXI in this country .. That drug shouldn't even exist . find Osama and Whitey

Taliban kills people for growing poppies.
Next?

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by likwid

Taliban kills people for growing poppies.
Next?

i stand corrected ,,,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006...tan.drugstrade

[Tagger]

but who to believe ..
http://www.voanews.com/english/archi...7a4a572f531720

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2008...urgent-taliban

Alot more publications stating they are being financed by poppys ... Maybe they are shooting the farmers for not paying up .

google it .. there's alot more .

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by likwid

Taliban kills people for growing poppies.
Next?

This statement was correct Pre-War on Terror days. The Taliban was extremely effective at destroying poppy cultivation. However, the Taliban has changed their position on poppy cultivation because they see it as an exceptional resource to fund their resistance.

[spence]

If you remember, after 9/11, and at the start of the Afghan war, Iran was actually helping the United States as they wanted to curb the flow of opium (ok, and perhaps punk Sunni Islam in the process).

Then they became a gold member in the new "Axis of Evil" and the moderate president was thrown out in favor of that wacko Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

This is perhaps one of the most important and underreported bylines of the WOT, and a strategic failure of the Bush Administration.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

anyone remember the Surge? You know, it was debated endlessly by congress, on all the news, internet, and after weeks, or was it months. There were more protests? Bush came on the news and addressed the nation? Well that was for sending 20,000 additonal troops to Iraq. He layed out the reasons why we needed to do it.

Today Obama arranged to send 17,000 troops to afghanistan. No debate, no discussion, no agreement. And most importantly no reason WHY.

1. As Americans you should be questioning this.
2. As Obama supporters, you should be appalled at his lack of transparency and his total lack of objective in committing troops to war.

Am I the only one that sees this? Why am I the only one angry? How many promises has this guy broken in just a month?

[likwid]

Originally Posted by spence

If you remember, after 9/11, and at the start of the Afghan war, Iran was actually helping the United States as they wanted to curb the flow of opium (ok, and perhaps punk Sunni Islam in the process).

Then they became a gold member in the new "Axis of Evil" and the moderate president was thrown out in favor of that wacko Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

This is perhaps one of the most important and underreported bylines of the WOT, and a strategic failure of the Bush Administration.

-spence

Also Iran was pretty annoyed with the refugees pouring out of Afghanistan running away from both the Soviets before them then the Taliban. They had a dog in BOTH fights. Its just that most revisionists would rather the "axis of evil" not look like they were helping.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

anyone remember the Surge? You know, it was debated endlessly by congress, on all the news, internet, and after weeks, or was it months. There were more protests? Bush came on the news and addressed the nation? Well that was for sending 20,000 additonal troops to Iraq. He layed out the reasons why we needed to do it.

Today Obama arranged to send 17,000 troops to afghanistan. No debate, no discussion, no agreement. And most importantly no reason WHY.

1. As Americans you should be questioning this.
2. As Obama supporters, you should be appalled at his lack of transparency and his total lack of objective in committing troops to war.

Am I the only one that sees this? Why am I the only one angry? How many promises has this guy broken in just a month?

I believe he said during the campaign he would be doing this, but only 7,000 during the transition the count went up to 30,000. And it was troops that had been previously positioned for Iraq.

[striperman36]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/we.../25cooper.html

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

anyone remember the Surge? You know, it was debated endlessly by congress, on all the news, internet, and after weeks, or was it months. There were more protests? Bush came on the news and addressed the nation? Well that was for sending 20,000 additonal troops to Iraq. He layed out the reasons why we needed to do it.

Today Obama arranged to send 17,000 troops to afghanistan. No debate, no discussion, no agreement. And most importantly no reason WHY.

1. As Americans you should be questioning this.
2. As Obama supporters, you should be appalled at his lack of transparency and his total lack of objective in committing troops to war.

Am I the only one that sees this? Why am I the only one angry? How many promises has this guy broken in just a month?

Actually, transparency and keeping a campaign promise is exactly what he's doing. That's why noone is questioning this and why us "Obama supporters" are not "appalled at his lack of transparency."

I know you conservatives are used to being told one thing and then nothing happening. Fortunately, action is something I can get used to.

I appreciate the re-evaluation of focus on the true reason we are in the Middle East. Afghanistan is where the War on Terror is. Iraq is where Bush's war on "the man who tried to kill my dad" is.
Cite for Bush's quote. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLI...bush.war.talk/

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Actually, transparency and keeping a campaign promise is exactly what he's doing. That's why noone is questioning this and why us "Obama supporters" are not "appalled at his lack of transparency."

I know you conservatives are used to being told one thing and then nothing happening. Fortunately, action is something I can get used to.

I appreciate the re-evaluation of focus on the true reason we are in the Middle East. Afghanistan is where the War on Terror is. Iraq is where Bush's war on "the man who tried to kill my dad" is.
Cite for Bush's quote. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLI...bush.war.talk/

action is what you condemned Bush for and O gets a free pass. So Obama sends 17000 troops, no approval from Congress, no debate and most importantly no goal. He is sending them into a war 5X as win-less as Iraq and does not even address the country. I give up, you guys are seriously helpless and blind.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

action is what you condemned Bush for and O gets a free pass.

Action yes.

IN THE WRONG EFFING COUNTRY.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

action is what you condemned Bush for and O gets a free pass. So Obama sends 17000 troops, no approval from Congress, no debate and most importantly no goal. He is sending them into a war 5X as win-less as Iraq and does not even address the country. I give up, you guys are seriously helpless and blind.

Obama made this a campaign promise and was elected on it. Besides, these are troops that the Pentagon has requested.

If anything you could argue that there's not a clear endgame on the table that this action is in support of, but no, you have to make this about Bush.

Afghanistan isn't 5X win-less either, but the definition of success is much different from Iraq. We need to kill Bin Laden and let every tribal leader in Afghanistan know that if they support terrorism we'll fire bomb their villages.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Obama made this a campaign promise and was elected on it. Besides, these are troops that the Pentagon has requested.

If anything you could argue that there's not a clear endgame on the table that this action is in support of, but no, you have to make this about Bush.

Afghanistan isn't 5X win-less either, but the definition of success is much different from Iraq. We need to kill Bin Laden and let every tribal leader in Afghanistan know that if they support terrorism we'll fire bomb their villages.

-spence

If you'd care to read above, I asked a number of times what the goal is aka, the end game.
Fire bomb their villages? That will be the day.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Dad, looks like you'll have to go to war in PAkistan too. That is if your goal is to defeat the Taliban.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/17/asia/17pstan.php

That's what he promised to do also....