Wasnt this part of the problem?

[Joe]

"I have a good memory. You were out here months ago whining about how Americans cannot afford to live in the same neighborhoods as their parents and that young people are priced out of homes.
Duh, Joe, thats becasue houses were way, way, way overvalued!!!!"

I have a good memory too - you were suggesting that people get an MBA if they want a middle class lifestyle.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Joe

"I have a good memory. You were out here months ago whining about how Americans cannot afford to live in the same neighborhoods as their parents and that young people are priced out of homes.
Duh, Joe, thats becasue houses were way, way, way overvalued!!!!"

I have a good memory too - you were suggesting that people get an MBA if they want a middle class lifestyle.

If thats what it takes to get ahead, is that a bad thing? thats because an MBA or classes or learning a trade are something YOU control, rather than looking to the government or teh American dream to owe you something. This country grew as a result of people bettering themselves and taking control. Until now that is.
Now the market has changed, real estate prices NEED to plummet. House will be more affordable. In the long term, its a good thing.! Its a good thing if people save 20% for a downpayment!
but if you fluff up the market to increase demand you'll keep prices high while devaluing the dollar.

[Joe]

No, its not a bad thing to get an advanced degree. But if an advanced degree is the ticket to the middle class, then what's been devalued is people, not property.
What's at the crux of the decline and fall of conservatism is this notion that the average worker is valueless simply by virtue of not being a member of the professional class.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Joe

No, its not a bad thing to get an advanced degree. But if an advanced degree is the ticket to the middle class, then what's been devalued is people, not property.
What's at the crux of the decline and fall of conservatism is this notion that the average worker is valueless simply by virtue of not being a member of the professional class.

joe, we've never had conservatism, ever. Bush was the least conservative ever.
And that notion is ridiculous. Home prices were not driven sky high by that. Household incomes HAVE BEEN ON THE RISE FOR YEARS!! read that line again, on the rise for YEARS. the problem is that people bought more and bigger than they could afford, period. In the past retirees would downsize homes, opening up starter home for new families. But empowered by big 401ks and pensions, they actually bucked the trend and bought BIGGER houses and vacation homes. All along raising the prices of homes. Now, those prices are going down, bad for for homeowners, good for people who want to buy a new home. The Obama plan is like pumping money into the dot.com market so that eBay shares can stay at $400 a share!

so how can a guy who started a business out of his home dealing in high end speciality products, post 9/11 and during the evil Bush years be so critical of the free market? No barriers to entry, no extreme taxes and a populace that can afford to buy?

[Joe]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

so how can a guy who started a business out of his home dealing in high end speciality products, post 9/11 and during the evil Bush years be so critical of the free market? No barriers to entry, no extreme taxes and a populace that can afford to buy?

I've got nothing against the letting free market forces dictate the economy under normal economic conditions.
I agree with the Keynesian Model which advocates government intervention in times of economic crisis. I disagree stongly with free market purists who believe an economy in crisis will right itself if left to its own devices.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

joe, we've never had conservatism, ever. Bush was the least conservative ever.

Conservatism is a guiding principal, it's not a method of government.

Bush became a neocon, and they are very liberal.

-spence