The Obama effect

[buckman]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

Maybe its because he lives in the Southside of Chicago and has witnessed the tragedies of gun crime up close and personal. I believe there were more than 500 murders in Chicago in 2008. Willing to bet 400 of those involved an illegal firearm.

This is what you said..."illegal firearm" would be....( help me out here) illegal, right. The thugs already lost their legal right to carry firearms by being criminals. The NRA stance is punish people that commit crimes with guns as hard as possible. It's really not that hard and it makes total sense.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

This is what you said..."illegal firearm" would be....( help me out here) illegal, right. The thugs already lost their legal right to carry firearms by being criminals. The NRA stance is punish people that commit crimes with guns as hard as possible. It's really not that hard and it makes total sense.

So, assuming Federal Law is enforced, the real question here is if the State or City has the right to enact gun laws more strict than Federal law if they deem it's necessary to protect the population.

Some on the Right will loudly say no, but to think that East St. Louis and Anamosa Iowa are one in the same sure doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Great pheasant hunting in Anamosa by the way, brings back memories.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

So, assuming Federal Law is enforced, the real question here is if the State or City has the right to enact gun laws more strict than Federal law if they deem it's necessary to protect the population.

Some on the Right will loudly say no, but to think that East St. Louis and Anamosa Iowa are one in the same sure doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Great pheasant hunting in Anamosa by the way, brings back memories.

-spence

I think there was a ruling by the SPC last year that stated just that.

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by buckman

This is what you said..."illegal firearm" would be....( help me out here) illegal, right. The thugs already lost their legal right to carry firearms by being criminals. The NRA stance is punish people that commit crimes with guns as hard as possible. It's really not that hard and it makes total sense.

assuming they have been convicted of a felony. The fact the gun is illegal does not stop hinder its accessibilty. Accessibility is what I'm talking about. For example, you can cross to the Potomac and go over to Virginia and purchase a trunk full of handguns at gun show. The next day, you can drive back across the potomac to DC and unload your stash like your ice cream truck on a bunch of kids who may or MAY NOT BE convicted felons. Is this registering yet?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

assuming they have been convicted of a felony. The fact the gun is illegal does not stop hinder its accessibilty. Accessibility is what I'm talking about. For example, you can cross to the Potomac and go over to Virginia and purchase a trunk full of handguns at gun show. The next day, you can drive back across the potomac to DC and unload your stash like your ice cream truck on a bunch of kids who may or MAY NOT BE convicted felons. Is this registering yet?

I don't know the laws down ther but I will assume your right.

I say when you catch the smuggler, lock him up for life. I don't think he will be selling anymore guns.

Why is that Virginia has few gun laws and very little gun violence? I'm not saying that everyone having a gun makes things safer but it does question why law abiding people being prevented from owning a gun makes things less safe.

[MotoXcowboy]

This ban is less permissive than the gun-control laws in Iraq. It appears our government will let an Islamist fanatic own an AK-47 in wild and woolly Iraq, but it wont give that same right to Americans.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by MotoXcowboy

This ban is less permissive than the gun-control laws in Iraq. It appears our government will let an Islamist fanatic own an AK-47 in wild and woolly Iraq, but it wont give that same right to Americans.

My question, is why do you feel you need an Uzi or AK-47/M-16??

I have zero problem with hand guns, hunting rifles and shot guns for sporting, hunting and home defense, but I have never understood the need for fully automatic weapons...

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

My question, is why do you feel you need an Uzi or AK-47/M-16??

I have zero problem with hand guns, hunting rifles and shot guns for sporting, hunting and home defense, but I have never understood the need for fully automatic weapons...

Ergo, if person A feels he needs X, on the basis that you do not understand his need for X, he should be banned from getting it?

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by MotoXcowboy

This ban is less permissive than the gun-control laws in Iraq. It appears our government will let an Islamist fanatic own an AK-47 in wild and woolly Iraq, but it wont give that same right to Americans.

Well lots of Iraqi's die every day because AK-47s are everywhere. I dont suspect that is a good thing. There are a lot of AK-47s in New Orleans and its has murder rate comparable to cities in south america.

Plus its a cultural thing, the AK-47 means a lot to those former european colonies around the world. More so than the rule of law. I think Mozambique even has an AK-47 on the country flag.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

Well lots of Iraqi's die every day because AK-47s are everywhere. I dont suspect that is a good thing. There are a lot of AK-47s in New Orleans and its has murder rate comparable to cities in south america.

Plus its a cultural thing, the AK-47 means a lot to those former european colonies around the world. More so than the rule of law. I think Mozambique even has an AK-47 on the country flag.

I don't know if "lots of Iraqi's" are still dying every day, certainly a lot less than a few months ago, but, if so, is the reason "because AK-47s are everywhere"? And if the AK-47s are the reason, how come the number of deaths has dramatically gone down?

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I don't know if "lots of Iraqi's" are still dying every day, certainly a lot less than a few months ago, but, if so, is the reason "because AK-47s are everywhere"? And if the AK-47s are the reason, how come the number of deaths has dramatically gone down?

Firearms are without question a contributing factor to the murder rates wherever there is ease of accessibility; Iraq or Miami. Its quite simple, restrict the ease with which one can take a life and then less lives are loss. But again, like most social phenomena, there are lots of variables to control for. Is there a distinct cause and effect relationship that can be be isolated with regard to AK-47s specifically...now that I don't know. But with regards to firearms generally, I think we both know the answer to that question. Anybody can pull a trigger....now stabbing someone to death, now were playing with an entirely different set of balls.

The drop in the civilian death toll is without question a remarkable thing. I don't mean to go off on a tangent, but much has transpired in Iraq over the past few years including substantial uprooting and ethnic cleansing. Maybe there are just less people to kill or maybe US troops are better at protecting the civilian populace. Its a combination of all these things and more. Why does it have to be black and white?

[likwid]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

Plus its a cultural thing, the AK-47 means a lot to those former european colonies around the world. More so than the rule of law. I think Mozambique even has an AK-47 on the country flag.

From wikipedia:

During the Cold War, the Soviet Union, Communist China and the United States supplied arms and technical knowledge to numerous client-state countries and rebel forces. While the United States used the relatively expensive M-14 battle rifle and M16 assault rifle during this time, it generally supplied older surplus weapons to its allies. The low production and materials costs of the AK-47 meant that the USSR could produce and supply client states with this rifle instead of sending surplus munitions. As a result, the Cold War saw the mass export, sometimes free of charge, of AK-47s by the Soviet Union and Communist China to pro-communist countries and groups such as the Nicaraguan Sandinistas and Vietcong. The AK design was spread to over 55 national armies and dozens of paramilitary groups.

The proliferation of this weapon is reflected by more than just numbers. The AK is included in the flag of Mozambique and its coat of arms, an acknowledgement that the country's rulers gained power in large part through the effective use of their AK-47s.[31] It is also found in the coat of arms of Zimbabwe and East Timor, the revolution era coat of arms of Burkina Faso, the flag of Hezbollah, and the logo of the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. "Kalash", a shortened form of "Kalashnikov", is used as a name for boys in some African countries.[citation needed]

Western cultures, especially the United States, have seen the AK-47 most often in the hands of nations and groups the United States condemns; first the Soviet Army, then its Communist allies during the Korean and Vietnam Wars. During the 1980s, the Soviet Union became the principal arms dealer to countries embargoed by the United States, including many Middle Eastern nations such as Syria, Libya and Iran, who were willing to ally with the USSR against U.S. interests. After the fall of the Soviet Union, AK-47s were sold both openly and on the black market to any group with cash, including drug cartels and dictatorial states, and most recently they have been seen in the hands of terrorist factions such as the Taliban and Al-Quaida in Afghanistan and Iraq. The AK-47 has thus garnered a reputation in Western nations as a symbol of anti-Americanism, and has gained a stereotypical role as the weapon of the enemy. In the United States, movie makers often arm criminals, gang members and terrorist characters with AKs.

In 2006, Colombian musician and peace activist César López devised the escopetarra, an AK converted into a guitar. One sold for US$17,000 in a fundraiser held to benefit the victims of anti-personnel mines, while another was exhibited at the United Nations' Conference on Disarmament.[32]

[buckman]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

. There are a lot of AK-47s in New Orleans
Plus.

How the hell do you know this?

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by buckman

How the hell do you know this?

Maybe because I was born there

My mother saved me by moving to Cambridge where I had a real shot at creating a meaningful life for myself.