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Old 02-28-2009, 05:44 PM   #1
numbskull
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I don't have a preconceived notion about this, other than that I think the population data is wrong and has probably been buffed to present the most favorable possible estimate because of political pressures and commercial bias on the board.

I would hope MSBA's experienced fisherman recognize the same issue and are interested in addressing it. To do so every idea should be considered on its own merit. Why, for instance, assume MA must give up any of its quota it chooses to use for conservation purposes? Why assume the recreational catch can not be limited by other means such as adjusting the slot limit or establishing a season (not that that is likely to be popular). And why prioritize the quantity of the fishery as opposed to the quality of the fishery?

I don't have a strong opinion regarding this bill........though I think it is ill conceived and poorly timed.....and very unlikely to pass. From a purely selfish standpoint I hope it does pass, after which the recreational limit would likely need to be severely curtailed to keep mortality below current levels (you get what you ask for) and a court case if necessary could ensue (probably backed by the Conservation Law Foundation) to establish a state's right NOT to kill fish if they so choose........which I suspect would be successful and ultimately save some decent fish for me to target over the waning years of my life.
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Old 02-28-2009, 06:07 PM   #2
l.i.fish.in.vt
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why not let the commercial qouta stay as it is and have the recreational be a catch and release only fishery?
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Old 02-28-2009, 06:18 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by l.i.fish.in.vt View Post
why not let the commercial qouta stay as it is and have the recreational be a catch and release only fishery?
Because, I want a fish for the bbq, the one I caught

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Old 02-28-2009, 08:27 PM   #4
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Yes, I have talked to scientist/researchers on this topic, plus done a lot of reading, but not specifically on this bill. Many of them are very supportive of using slot limits and are starting to see a real weakening fishery.

Main point to remember is that Mass can stop commercial fishing on it's own but to change to a slot fish would require ASMFC approval in the end. When they bring forward the slot limit the first thing that will be required is to determine the affect. At that time the science that Patrick is questioning will be applied. The results could vary but increasing above the current kill numbers is very unlikely. The slot size could change, there could be seasons associated with the slot, part or all of the commercial quota could be moved to the recreational fisherman and so on. So while the law may have some flaws associated with the slot limit, it is a good starting point.

Comments that the commercial quota will be turned over to the other states are backwards looking comments. Presently NH has a commercial quota that it does not use and NJ has a quota that it can use towards increasing recreational catch. But that is todays quota distribution process, but like everything it is subjected to change. Getting Mass out of the striper commercial fishing column can not be over stated in it's importance. ASMFC has been looking at making major changes to the stripe bass regulations. At the Feb ASMFC meeting there was a vote to put forward on an addendum to increase the commercial quota by as much as 25%. It failed on a tie vote with Mass voting in support of increasing the quota. What we need are more Richie Whites on the stripe bass management board. Take some time to read the report from the last meeting.

http://www.asmfc.org/speciesDocument...ardMinutes.pdf

No, I am not against commercial fishing as a whole. People talk about job losses associated with commercial fishing for stripers but everyone needs to remember that the real job market associated with stripers comes from recreational fishing. The value of having a quality recreational outlet for the public can never be overstated.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by l.i.fish.in.vt View Post
why not let the commercial qouta stay as it is and have the recreational be a catch and release only fishery?
hear!! hear!!




"never met a bluefish i wouldn't sell"
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:02 PM   #6
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givemeabreak. The striper is not here to line your pockets for a few weeks with greenbacks. Heck, The comm quota could be more than filled with the by-catch that is dumped back dead. No need for a comm R&R'ers. It's time has passed.
Rec fishing is largely C&R TODAY anyway! Most RECs are FAR more conservation minded then nearly EVERY comm bass fishermen I have seen.

Fact is, most rec fishermen don't even catch a single SB all season and there is more than 1200 comm lic's. So that number of 650K rec fishermen is highly distorting of the number of bass fishermen.


If I was the Striper CZAR, this is what I would do and do it today:


1) shut down R&R SB comm fishing (they take a million # from popular concentrated areas depleting local stocks each season, further, there is a black market of selling < 34" fish as well as a bait taking problem more like a "scam" that is totally unreported and contributes to the bait exploitation that is rampant.

2) limit Recs to 1@36 (keep is simple, and cut it further if need be) and mandate reporting for every kept fish under the new fishing license.

3) take CONSERVATIVE steps to build up forage stocks. This is a separate issue as ALL fish would benefit from this and it is NOT getting the attn it deserves. Currently, under "personal use" you can take an unlimited about of bait with ANY SIZE NET! As long as you do not sell it. (But who is going to catch them doing under the table deals to their buddies?)
(new reg this year, I got clarification on this today) So, with regs like this, how can we say that the DMF is taking steps to protect bait? They are not. Frankly, the commercial guys have them in their pocket. They are taking steps to better keep track of real commercial bait guys but what about the guys taking 1000+ bunker per day (for "personal use") to sell under the table, (unreported, both from a fish and a TAX standpoint) to their unlicensed bait-dealing fishing buddies? This hurts the real bait dealers as wel as the stocks.

4) Gamefish status would cut thru all the reg crap and FORCE DMF to do the moral and just thing and take the $ off the fishes head without hurting the billion dollar rec fishing industry) Moreover it is EASY to enforce, not like the nightmare we have today which is largely unenforced, and really out of control. Further, there would be a lot LESS bait taken to support catching/selling of SB . No one would want 1000 bunker for personal use because there would be no one to sell them to. The result would be more bunker.

I can't see a single reason to keep wild SB a comm fish. The species deserves this respect. It is not about more for me and less for you. I still have a Comm SB lic, I use to sell them and I want to see it shut down. As a rec fishermen I see few fishermen taking fish home, recs are mostly C&R now with the occasional one being taken home to eat. I want to see the striper really protected, fed much better and I don't want to see every fishermen-supported industry go BK, they are having a tuff time as it is. Gamefish will go a looooong way to do this IMO in a simple step with little enforcement needed.

IMO this bill will pass, its gonna happen. It might not pass in its current form but it will pass eventually. The YOY index has been weak and is declining, and if it has another bad year again this year, combined with the disease and fishing pressure at peak along with the anecdotal accounts of bad SB fishing in most areas...I think this will pass. I have thought about this alot and originally did not like it because I thought it could be managed but after seeing what the current management style has yielded us ....this is the only way. You will never get DMF to do the job. They are being pulled in too many directions and IMO are borderline corrupt...except in RI where everyone is openly corrupt

Once MA goes gamefish, the word is NY will and then it is over coast wide. It is gonna happen. I give it 3 years or less. Look for a big push after the YOY numbers are out later this year. If that is bad it could happen sooner. The days of the comm R&R bass man are ending I can see the light....can I get an AMEN?!!

Last edited by Mr. Sandman; 03-12-2009 at 08:30 AM..
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:06 PM   #7
RIROCKHOUND
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Quote:
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2) limit Recs to 1@36(keep is simple, and cut it further if need be) and mandate reporting for every kept fish under the new fishing license.
Ding Ding Ding.

people are dumb. Keep the limit easy to remember and it won't be an issue... Slots will cause more small fish to be laid out and measured for 10min rather than quickly released.... plus it will reduce the amount kept by a lot IMHO

Bryan

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"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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