The most important fish in the sea

[numbskull]

Once upon a time, cod would have universally been considered the "most important fish in the sea". Shows how low in the barrel we are now.

[Mr. Sandman]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Once upon a time, cod would have universally been considered the "most important fish in the sea". Shows how low in the barrel we are now.

There is no question that the The "Marine fishery Managers" under the guidance of the expert "Marine Fishery Scientists" destroyed this fishery by the LACK of regulation on codfish. It pisses me off when I hear comm guys talk about the "good ol days" of cod fishing....it was so damn good because they were destroying the fishery. My fix to codfishing: Complete shut down for 10 years (rec and comm), then re-evaluate.

Re. bunker : All the rich history of the weird fish(ery) aside, what I took away from the book were 3 main reasons of the importance of this fish over many other fish:

1) This fish is one of the only fish that converts plant materials to rich protein. It does not eat smaller fish (like most other fish do). It is continually filtering decomposing vegetable matter from the water (a good thing for the water) and creating a rich oily flesh. In this regard it is a machine.

2) It has an incredible reproductive cycle. It pumps out eggs almost continually, spawning multi times up and down the coast each year. The numbers of eggs (annually) this fish produces for its size is huge compared to once a year spawners.

3)There was/is huge money in this fish. The comm. fishing has declined from 250+ outfits to 1 or 2. However it was not until the industrialization of the fishery with the invention of purse seining with spotter planes that they were able to actually put a dent in the population. (by taking every single fish in a school)


OK, I see all this as good news. Given the reproduction rate of this thing it is reasonable to assume that if left alone in 4 years or so we should start seeing increased bait supply again. Considering the good it does as a rich food source for other fish as well as helping to filter the water, it looks like a win-win...moreover, I think it it would not take much to bring it back to what it was if they took the $ off the fishes head for a few years, then more carefully regulated it.

I don't want to get religious but personally this is one of those fish (similar to the squid but with a kicker...) that I view that God put on this earth in vast numbers to support the large biomass of fish on this planet. Think about it, you can't eat it, it smells, it has an insane reproduction rate, you cant even catch it on rod and reel, it has "no" value or interest to the average guy but it is a rich food source for almost every larger fish (and seabird) in on the coast...and it does this unique thing, converting plants to meat...while ridding the water of nuisance material that no other fish eats. IMO if this fish was allowed to rebound back to its former numbers (and this seems plausible given its reproduction) then I think that SB and many other fish would be healthier and grow in size and numbers.

OK, tell me why I am naive...

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

Re. bunker : All the rich history of the weird fish(ery) aside, what I took away from the book were 3 main reasons of the importance of this fish over many other fish:

1) This fish is one of the only fish that converts plant materials to rich protein. It does not eat smaller fish (like most other fish do). It is continually filtering decomposing vegetable matter from the water (a good thing for the water) and creating a rich oily flesh. In this regard it is a machine.

2) It has an incredible reproductive cycle. It pumps out eggs almost continually, spawning multi times up and down the coast each year. The numbers of eggs (annually) this fish produces for its size is huge compared to once a year spawners.

3)There was/is huge money in this fish. The comm. fishing has declined from 250+ outfits to 1 or 2. However it was not until the industrialization of the fishery with the invention of purse seining with spotter planes that they were able to actually put a dent in the population. (by taking every single fish in a school)


OK, I see all this as good news. Given the reproduction rate of this thing it is reasonable to assume that if left alone in 4 years or so we should start seeing increased bait supply again. Considering the good it does as a rich food source for other fish as well as helping to filter the water, it looks like a win-win...moreover, I think it it would not take much to bring it back to what it was if they took the $ off the fishes head for a few years, then more carefully regulated it.

I don't want to get religious but personally this is one of those fish (similar to the squid but with a kicker...) that I view that God put on this earth in vast numbers to support the large biomass of fish on this planet. Think about it, you can't eat it, it smells, it has an insane reproduction rate, you cant even catch it on rod and reel, it has "no" value or interest to the average guy but it is a rich food source for almost every larger fish (and seabird) in on the coast...and it does this unique thing, converting plants to meat...while ridding the water of nuisance material that no other fish eats. IMO if this fish was allowed to rebound back to its former numbers (and this seems plausible given its reproduction) then I think that SB and many other fish would be healthier and grow in size and numbers.

OK, tell me why I am naive...

O.K. tell me what "one of the only" implies? It is certainly not the only fish in the sea that eats vegetable matter and turns it into protein, there are literally thousands of species that do the exact same thing. Secondly, it eats both phytoplankton(plants) and zooplankton (animals) do you know what some of the main components of zooplankon are? Fish eggs and larval and juvenial fish! Yes, the menhaden is one of the predators on striped bass fry and larva as well as the eggs, larva and fry of many other species of fish. There is precious little "decomposing vegetable matter" in the water. what little there is is washed in from land and the menhaden eats none of it. Adult menhaden, contrary to what has been stated in the RI debate does not eat detrius or dead algae.

As for I don't want to get religious but personally this is one of those fish (similar to the squid but with a kicker...) that I view that God put on this earth in vast numbers to support the large biomass of fish on this planet." the fact is that vast majority of the earth's biomass of fish never come in contact with a menhaden, so they have no opportunity to eat one.

I certainly agree that the menhaden are an important part of the coastal ecosystem, but I don't hold them on the pedestal that the author does.

[Mr. Sandman]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

It is certainly not the only fish in the sea that eats vegetable matter and turns it into protein, there are literally thousands of species that do the exact same thing...

There is precious little "decomposing vegetable matter" in the water. what little there is is washed in from land and the menhaden eats none of it..

If there are thousand of species converting vegetable matter to protein they why is there so precious little?
Oh, Name a few species of fish in the coastal inshore area of the US that eat plants only.

Originally Posted by MakoMike

As for I don't want to get religious but personally this is one of those fish (similar to the squid but with a kicker...) that I view that God put on this earth in vast numbers to support the large biomass of fish on this planet." the fact is that vast majority of the earth's biomass of fish never come in contact with a menhaden, so they have no opportunity to eat one. .

Don't be a wise ass. That isn't what I intended to imply and you know it. It is important to the east coast and in particular SB and....... awe %$%$%$%$ it! I have had enough of this $hit. It's like talking to another commercial fishermen hell bent on getting "his" share.


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[Fish_Eye]

This steamer was heading to the oil and GUANO factory in Tiverton.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

If there are thousand of species converting vegetable matter to protein they why is there so precious little?

Because there are thousands of organisms eating it!

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

, Name a few species of fish in the coastal inshore area of the US that eat plants only.

Almost all of the Blennies, Tangs, damsels, chromis, parrotfish and those are off the top of my head. Also don't leave out the shellfish, many of which either exclusively or non-exclusively feed on phytoplankton and or macro algae.

I'm not a commercial fisherman and have nothing to gain from the exploitation of menhaden or the lack thereof. I'm just trying to bring some rationality to this conversation.