Ummm,,,,Ahhhh...Um...Ahhhhh....Ummmm

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by Nebe

hes a better speaker than the last sucker to have that job...

Yes, that is true, but when Bush spoke, I feel it came more from his heartfelt beliefs (even if you think they were misguided). He made so many mistakes speaking, because he did speak a lot from his feelings without the benefit of utilizing the brain. I thought he was one of those guys, like a 1/2 educated farmer, that would do anything to provide for his family and country. I saw him speak twice at the Naval War College while on active duty and during the question and answers after his speeches, he showed me that he was very patriotic, had a deep love for this country, and would do just about anything to protect this land.

I have yet to see Obama speak besides on tv, so I havent been able to get a real feel for him. From the speeches I have seen, it seems like I'm listening to a lawyer, very well chosen words, and sometimes his words don't seem to be reflected in his eyes. Eerily, reminds me of my days as a cop, when guys would tell the suspect that they were trying to help him, by getting all of the facts or he wasn't your main target (to get more info), when all you really wanted was to get that punk behind bars. When he says something I feel that he means something slightly or completely different. Not trying to be anti Obama, but I can't seem to trust him. I feel like he as good as Clinton at telling lies.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

Yes, that is true, but when Bush spoke, I feel it came more from his heartfelt beliefs (even if you think they were misguided).

In one sentence, you have completely explained why Bush was the biggest failure of a president.

Being a business owner, I see running a government as not much unlike running a business. Every decision needs to be precisely calculated to produce the most optimal results. Every action or policy put into place must produce the maximum benefit to, not only the company, but also the customer. This is where Bush failed.

I agree that in many aspects, many of Bush's actions stemmed from heartfelt beliefs. However, it is my opinion that almost *all* of Bush's policies were based on his "heartfelt belief" as opposed to calculated decisions.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I agree that in many aspects, many of Bush's actions stemmed from heartfelt beliefs. However, it is my opinion that almost *all* of Bush's policies were based on his "heartfelt belief" as opposed to calculated decisions.

Or worse, the heartfelt beliefs of those around him.

Example.

Bush (protect the American people) + Advisers (democratize the Middle East) = Policy (protect the American people by democratizing the Middle Ease)

I think Bush came across as genuine for many because he believed most of what he was saying. He did though appear to lack the intellectual curiosity to dive into issues and explore the various facets. He was more apt to simply take things for what they appeared to be (or was told) and if he felt he was making the right decision he would be clear with this choice.

This works fine when everything is rosy, but I think proven to be dramatically insufficient when dealing with the complex problems that he was presented with. The world isn't black and white but they tried to make it out to be so as to be easier for the American people to swallow.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

In one sentence, you have completely explained why Bush was the biggest failure of a president.

Being a business owner, I see running a government as not much unlike running a business. Every decision needs to be precisely calculated to produce the most optimal results. Every action or policy put into place must produce the maximum benefit to, not only the company, but also the customer. This is where Bush failed.

I agree that in many aspects, many of Bush's actions stemmed from heartfelt beliefs. However, it is my opinion that almost *all* of Bush's policies were based on his "heartfelt belief" as opposed to calculated decisions.

This raises the question...What the hell makes you think Obama won't fail? He should be poised to be the worst President ever by your logic.

And I agree 100% with your statement.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

This raises the question...What the hell makes you think Obama won't fail? He should be poised to be the worst President ever by your logic.

Not necessarily.

Take health care for instance. It's perhaps our biggest challenge and yet one where there's an abundance of cash flow. If I was a business person I'd treat the systemic issues with strategic solutions.

For instance we may be able to dramatically reduce costs through early detection, or achieve economies of scale by consolidating services. These solutions have proven difficult if not impossible to deploy with a hybrid free market system. Hell, we don't even let the Government negotiate discount rates for pharmaceuticals!

The counter argument of course is that it could limit choice, or create socialistic entitlements. But these are ideological issues that ignore a potential net gain to the system, and that could be a better use of the same taxpayer money.

A business person would ignore ideology at first and look for innovative solutions to the big problems, then use their ideology as guiding principals to stress test the actual solutions.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Not necessarily.

Take health care for instance. It's perhaps our biggest challenge and yet one where there's an abundance of cash flow. If I was a business person I'd treat the systemic issues with strategic solutions.

For instance we may be able to dramatically reduce costs through early detection, or achieve economies of scale by consolidating services. These solutions have proven difficult if not impossible to deploy with a hybrid free market system. Hell, we don't even let the Government negotiate discount rates for pharmaceuticals!

The counter argument of course is that it could limit choice, or create socialistic entitlements. But these are ideological issues that ignore a potential net gain to the system, and that could be a better use of the same taxpayer money.

A business person would ignore ideology at first and look for innovative solutions to the big problems, then use their ideology as guiding principals to stress test the actual solutions.

-spence

As long as the President, his wife and children have the same health insurance I get. No exceptions, otherwise I like my freedom to choose for my own children.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

As long as the President, his wife and children have the same health insurance I get. No exceptions, otherwise I like my freedom to choose for my own children.

That's a good way to look at it. I'm not for a pure single payer system, but I also don't think what we have now is workable either. I think there's a solution where we have a limited single payer system to provide base coverage and people or companies can upgrade somewhat like they do with Medicare today.

The American people also need to stop subsidizing pharmaceuticals for the rest of the world. We're the only industrialized nation who allows price fixing.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

That's a good way to look at it. I'm not for a pure single payer system, but I also don't think what we have now is workable either. I think there's a solution where we have a limited single payer system to provide base coverage and people or companies can upgrade somewhat like they do with Medicare today.

The American people also need to stop subsidizing pharmaceuticals for the rest of the world. We're the only industrialized nation who allows price fixing.

-spence

Well Medicare is going bankrupt too. I would feel a little better if the Feds had just one program that had succeeded in it's intended purpose. This bunch that's in charge now, can't do anything right. Spend, spend, spend....