Waterboarding

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by buckman

Sounds like collateral damage. Something that we strive to avoid. So I take it you are fully opposed to the US bombing anywhere,anytime and for any reason.

Collateral damage is one of the challenges confronting the execution of asymetrical warfare. I do agree we have got to be surgical and much depends on intelligence.

But as it relates to Bush-doctrine-war, I oppose any "US Bombing anywhere, anytime and for any reason"

Now with regard to the death penalty, prosecutors dont always get good "intelligence" on the situation and its not cost effective. I can understand support for the death penalty in theory, but real world practice speaks volumes to our civil imperfections.

Not to mention that it seems death sentences are handed out like candy when the victim is white. Simply put, the courts in Ohio would have us believe that the lives of whites are worth more than blacks.


I think were talking to different types of collateral damage.

[basswipe]

As an American,a decendent of genocide(Armenian that is) and most of all a Veteran I am appalled by the idea that we(our government) tortured people.

We're Americans.Are we not better than this?Do we need to step down to the level of the religious/political fanatics in order to gain info?

We're American.Want info?Dominate the freaks and force them through shear firepower and technology.Waterboarding my ass,we are better than that.

We're better than torture.We're American.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by basswipe

As an American,a decendent of genocide(Armenian that is) and most of all a Veteran I am appalled by the idea that we(our government) tortured people.

We're Americans.Are we not better than this?Do we need to step down to the level of the religious/political fanatics in order to gain info?

We're American.Want info?Dominate the freaks and force them through shear firepower and technology.Waterboarding my ass,we are better than that.

We're better than torture.We're American.

IT WASN'T TORTURE!

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by buckman

IT WASN'T TORTURE!

Actually it is.

Would you like to be waterboarded?.....Of course not,you neither have the nads or the ability to withstand it.And if you think you do,you are delusional.Its torture or we wouldn't use it.If you believe the threat of "I'll kill you" will even elicit a response from these freaks, once again you are delusional.I've been gassed as part of basic and trust me that was mild in comparison.

WTF did you miss in my post about domination through technology and firepower?Seriously,did you miss that part?

Another armchair quarterback who thinks he knows whats best.Join the rest,including those you constantly argue with here.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Actually it is.

Would you like to be waterboarded?.....Of course not,you neither have the nads or the ability to withstand it.And if you think you do,you are delusional.Its torture or we wouldn't use it.If you believe the threat of "I'll kill you" will even elicit a response from these freaks, once again you are delusional.I've been gassed as part of basic and trust me that was mild in comparison.

WTF did you miss in my post about domination through technology and firepower?Seriously,did you miss that part?

Another armchair quarterback who thinks he knows whats best.Join the rest,including those you constantly argue with here.

Your right, I would sing like a sparrow. I guess your admitting it works.

The American people don't have the stomach for a heavy handed war. Imagine dropping the bomb now. We have gone soft. You can talk tough all you want, but the fact is, if the people in charge would let our men fight then we WOULD kick butt. They won't ,so we are forced to fight covert. Just thank your lucky stars that there are people willing to make the hard choices and do the hard thing so your kids can sleep in peace.

Seems like I'm argueing with you. How's your chair?

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

The American people don't have the stomach for a heavy handed war. Imagine dropping the bomb now. We have gone soft. You can talk tough all you want, but the fact is, if the people in charge would let our men fight then we WOULD kick butt. They won't ,so we are forced to fight covert.

I think this is a load of horse hockey.

People have the stomach for war when they believe it's the right thing to do, but people are not warmongers.

When Bush's marketing department convinced the American people that Saddam was involved with 9/11 the people we're out for blood. They didn't turn because they went soft, they turned because the oringinal case for war fell apart and they felt duped.

Most people aren't against torture because they're soft, they're against it because without a line in the sand we're no better than they are. Basswipe is right on this.

-spence

[scottw]

http://www.iqhp.org/English.aspx

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

I think this is a load of horse hockey.

People have the stomach for war when they believe it's the right thing to do, but people are not warmongers.

When Bush's marketing department convinced the American people that Saddam was involved with 9/11 the people we're out for blood. They didn't turn because they went soft, they turned because the oringinal case for war fell apart and they felt duped.

Most people aren't against torture because they're soft, they're against it because without a line in the sand we're no better than they are. Basswipe is right on this.

-spence

You may be right Spence. But if we were to fight World War II, with the media coverage we now have, the public opinion would be for us to get out. We have become soft. Can you imagine the outrage when 100 young solders are killed from your small town alone. My point is that if we are not going to let our troops fight they way they are trained, then you should count your blessings that we have covert harsh interogation or what ever the hell you want to call it.
Basswipe is dead on. If the generals made the dicisions then the war would be over. They don't. A bunch of pansie politicians do.

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by buckman

Your right, I would sing like a sparrow. I guess your admitting it works.

The American people don't have the stomach for a heavy handed war. Imagine dropping the bomb now. We have gone soft. You can talk tough all you want, but the fact is, if the people in charge would let our men fight then we WOULD kick butt. They won't ,so we are forced to fight covert. Just thank your lucky stars that there are people willing to make the hard choices and do the hard thing so your kids can sleep in peace.

Seems like I'm argueing with you. How's your chair?

I talk tough because I lived it.Our boys ARE fighting hard.Who are you to question anything an American soldier does?Have you served?Have you seen?I can answer that.....a great big no I would say.I'll wager your kids sleep in "peace" through nothing you've done but what others have done.How dare you question my commitment to my country and my family.

My chair is fine.I was standing outside of mine while you were sitting in yours!Go to hell.

Waterboarding works because it causes complete agony.America isn't about inflicting agony on its prisoners,ask American POWS of the Japanese how it feels dumbo!Think before you speak dumbass!

We should be killing these freaks outright through firepower and technology...no prisoners to start with.Shear domination.Wake up kid.

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by basswipe

I hate fvcknuts like you.

I talk tough because I lived it a$$hole.Our boys ARE fighting hard.Who the fvck are you to question anything an American soldier does?Have you served?Have you seen?I can answer that.....a great big no I would say.I'll wager your kids sleep in "peace" through nothing you've done but what others have done.You a$$,how dare you question my commitment to my country and my family.

My chair is fine.I was standing outside of mine while you were sitting in yours!Go to hell.

Waterboarding works because it causes complete agony.America isn't about inflicting agony on its prisoners,ask American POWS of the Japanese how it feels dumbo!Think before you speak dumbass!

We should be killing these freaks outright through firepower and technology...no prisoners to start with.Shear domination.Wake up kid.

Wow! You totally misread him. He wasn't criticizing us that have served or are serving, he was criticizing the damn politicians. Our military is like a professional baseball team, and they make us play with a plastic bat, a tee and a wiffle ball. The politicians love to put us in harms way and tie our hands!

And the petty name calling was beneath even you, Basswipe.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by buckman

IT WASN'T TORTURE!

Waterboarding has been defined by the international community to be torture. That same international community that the US is a part of. All of which have signed a document against the torture of any individuals.

News outlets need to stop using Euphemisms like "Enhanced Interrogation" or "Harsh Interrogation." Torture by any other name is still torture.

If I wrap my arm around someone's throat and squeeze, can I call it a Happy Hug so as not to be prosecuted?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

Collateral damage is one of the challenges confronting the execution of asymetrical warfare. I do agree we have got to be surgical and much depends on intelligence.

But as it relates to Bush-doctrine-war, I oppose any "US Bombing anywhere, anytime and for any reason"

Now with regard to the death penalty, prosecutors dont always get good "intelligence" on the situation and its not cost effective. I can understand support for the death penalty in theory, but real world practice speaks volumes to our civil imperfections.

Not to mention that it seems death sentences are handed out like candy when the victim is white. Simply put, the courts in Ohio would have us believe that the lives of whites are worth more than blacks.


I think were talking to different types of collateral damage.

This isn't about the Bush doctrine. I asked about Obama bombing in Pakastan and how it balances with his decision to ban harsh interrogation.

The courts do take black on black crime one way and black on white crime quite the different. It is not always the case but there is about a 10% difference. That's not a reason to stop capital punishment. If it were "fair" more blacks would be on death row, not less.