Cool beans def of a liberal:

[scottw]

this is so convoluted Spence...principles(our founding principles) are the basic "building blocks", "truths that we hold to be self evident" that identify, unify and distinguish our nation...VALUES are simply the degree to which an individual or group feels compelled/obligated to adhere to these princilpes based on their wants/needs/beliefs at the time... (values) are not "unalterable beliefs" they change constantly among individuals as well as groups....Values change over time, principles do not...you have this completely upside down because you seek, promote values based on no principles, arbitrary to suit your whims....we all share the same basic principles on which this country is founded, we all have differing values however, for a whole host of reasons...liberal progressives seek to make their values univeral through the deconstruction of the Constitution and it's principles, activism on the courts, supression and activism in the press...the disdain is obvious...the evidence is abundant, I don't think that most self -described "liberals/democrats" have the slightest clue as to the Progressive agenda or the history of the Progressive movement in this country...I hope that this conversation continues because you making things crystal clear and are revealing yourself in a frightening way...nice job

Primarily, the Independent voters who got Obama elected wanted a more transparent government and pragmatic policies. they are getting neither

[spence]

You seem to be having a difficult time differentiating between words and ideas. Call them farnicks and labdubs for all I care...it doesn't change the argument at all...

I think I now understand the argument that the liberal position isn't based on a strong foundation. They just lay claim to the words they want and assert the other side is left empty.

The FOX News crowd seems quite enamored by Glenn Beck these days, here are his top values and principals. See how perhaps if we stopped being honest (a value) that a principal like "America is good" could change.

Principals that Glenn Beck speaks of are:
1. America is good.
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
8. It is not "un"-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.

Glenn's 12 values goes as such; honesty, reverence, hope, thrift, humility, charity, sincerity, moderation, hard, work, courage, personal responsibility, and gratitude.

-spence

[scottw]

now you are babbling...

America is "good" while not perfect and has been an extraordinary force of good on this planet since it's inception and has done more to improve humanity through charity, protection of freedom and rebuttal of tyrrany, advancement of technology etc..than any other country in world history...however, you wouldn't know this by listening to Obama, Flotus or your average progressive and the blame America first crowd...

you have been reduced to farnicks and lubadubs and cut and paste from Glenn Beck...sad state of affairs for the Alynski, but I still love you

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

America is "good" while not perfect and has been an extraordinary force of good on this planet since it's inception and has done more to improve humanity through charity, protection of freedom and rebuttal of tyrrany, advancement of technology etc..than any other country in world history...

And thus ScottW illustrates another failing of many conservatives, a deep belief (a principal really) that their own %$%$%$%$ doesn't stink held so dear they're unable to even ponder a hypothetical scenario which is unsettling.

Perhaps this is why they tend to reject academic thought as it often encourages this sort of thing?

I'd note that in the Peanuts cartoons the children always thought their teachers were babbling as well.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

And thus ScottW illustrates another failing of many conservatives, a deep belief (a principal really) that their own %$%$%$%$ doesn't stink held so dear they're unable to even ponder a hypothetical scenario which is unsettling. HUH? I have no idea what that means but...explain the unsettling hypothetical scenario that I(we smelling like roses(8 letters-%$%$%$%$) types) was/were supposed to ponder again?

Perhaps this is why they tend to reject academic thought as it often encourages this sort of thing? you are going elitist on us peasants again

I'd note that in the Peanuts cartoons the children always thought their teachers were babbling as well. they were...remember ? waaa,waaa,wa,waa,waaa,wa,wa,wa,waaa,waaa

-spence