Iran

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by justplugit

In his news conference today, Gibbs said Iran needs to stop their nuclear program
in order to join the world in a "meaningful relationship."

Wow, that should change their minds.

I believe they also stated that severe economic sanctions were next... This will not get a free pass...

[spence]

I think Obama is playing this one pretty well...

He reached out to the people and in doing so exposed how weak the central authority really is.

Iran probably felt they were going to get exposed, but they screwed up. Instead of jumping too soon, Obama let Iran make a big mistake by stating they did have a facility in violation of the UN and exposing their lie. Probably a little luck was involved in the timing right around the UN meeting.

If he can negotiate some support from Russia, they may actually get stiffer measures passed, but China will be a major roadblock.

People can laugh all they want about the prospects of a dialogue, but ultimately we do need a closer relationship. Isolation has just made things worse.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

I think Obama is playing this one pretty well...

He reached out to the people and in doing so exposed how weak the central authority really is.

Iran probably felt they were going to get exposed, but they screwed up. Instead of jumping too soon, Obama let Iran make a big mistake by stating they did have a facility in violation of the UN and exposing their lie. Probably a little luck was involved in the timing right around the UN meeting.

If he can negotiate some support from Russia, they may actually get stiffer measures passed, but China will be a major roadblock.

People can laugh all they want about the prospects of a dialogue, but ultimately we do need a closer relationship. Isolation has just made things worse.

-spence

you are too funny. Obama stood on the sidelines while Iranians were being killed after the elections and in normal Obama fashion, his response was too little, too late. And you say he "reached out to the people", you think the average Iranian gives too $hits about Obama? The iron hand rules there and thats not changing anytime soon. As far as UN Sanctions.....OOOOOOHHHH Scary....... how'd those pan out for Iraq? I guess if they dont we can just pass another, and another and another and another and another......

[scottw]

Iran will nuke Israel and Spence will say..."Obama did everything perfectly and brilliantly.....it was Bush's fault that all of those Israelies are dead"...what a dope....


"People can laugh all they want about the prospects of a dialogue, but ultimately we do need a closer relationship."
-spence

I think Neville Chaimberlain said the same thing about Hitler...


today...
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iran tested its most advanced missiles Monday to cap two days of war games, raising more international concern and stronger pressure to quickly come clean on the newly revealed nuclear site Tehran was secretly constructing.
State television said the powerful Revolutionary Guard, which controls Iran's missile program, successfully tested upgraded versions of the medium-range Shahab-3 and Sajjil missiles. Both can carry warheads and reach up to 1,200 miles (2,000 kilometers), putting Israel, U.S. military bases in the Middle East, and parts of Europe within striking distance.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

you are too funny. Obama stood on the sidelines while Iranians were being killed after the elections and in normal Obama fashion, his response was too little, too late. And you say he "reached out to the people", you think the average Iranian gives too $hits about Obama? The iron hand rules there and thats not changing anytime soon. As far as UN Sanctions.....OOOOOOHHHH Scary....... how'd those pan out for Iraq? I guess if they dont we can just pass another, and another and another and another and another......

What was Obama to do, invade?

UN sanctions were quite effective in stopping Saddam's production of WMD's.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

What was Obama to do, invade?



-spence

What could he have done? How about one of those teleprompter passionate speeches THE VERY DAY of the reports of civilians being killed? How about calling for an IMMMEDIATE meeting of the UN Security Council? How about LEADING !!!!!!!

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

How about calling for an IMMMEDIATE meeting of the UN Security Council? How about LEADING !!!!!!!

To what end? Invasion?

They certainly didn't want to look like we were meddling in their affairs, which is a stigma the US has among the Iranian people.

Also, given the situation had we taken a harder line it would have most likely just empowered the Iranian hardliners. By showing their true colors they revealed their weakness. The clerics are not all on the same page.

A knee-jerk reaction might have impressed the neocons, but the goal is to win the long-term struggle.

It's looking like the Administration has worked to find some common ground among the G5 which is necessary to apply any real pressure.

The Iranian issue will be solved via incremental success, of which the past 8 years have seen none.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

To what end? Invasion?

They certainly didn't want to look like we were meddling in their affairs, which is a stigma the US has among the Iranian people.

Also, given the situation had we taken a harder line it would have most likely just empowered the Iranian hardliners. By showing their true colors they revealed their weakness. The clerics are not all on the same page.

A knee-jerk reaction might have impressed the neocons, but the goal is to win the long-term struggle.

It's looking like the Administration has worked to find some common ground among the G5 which is necessary to apply any real pressure.

The Iranian issue will be solved via incremental success, of which the past 8 years have seen none.

-spence

huh? Do you actually think before you post or is this an automated reply which pulls together a bunch of pro-obama talking points? You think the PEOPLE of Iran didnt want the support of the American President because it would be seen as meddling during the election aftermath, yet you think the PEOPLE of Iran are behind Obama because he is meddling in their nuclear effort? You come up with some wacky rationalization for everything. Common sense needs to prevail at some point.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

People can laugh all they want about the prospects of a dialogue, but ultimately we do need a closer relationship. Isolation has just made things worse.

-spence

Do you really believe that there can be productive dialogue with Ahmadinejad? This is the same guy that believes that the Holocaust never happened and wants to blow Israel off the map. He also claimed that the global economic crisis was a good thing because it collapsed liberalism.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Do you really believe that there can be productive dialogue with Ahmadinejad? This is the same guy that believes that the Holocaust never happened and wants to blow Israel off the map. He also claimed that the global economic crisis was a good thing because it collapsed liberalism.

But the President is only a bit player, it's the Ayatollah and military who have the real authority. What we saw this summer was that the circle of clerics is not as tight as we once believed.

I don't buy the idea that Iran is going to nuke Israel.

Iran has interests, everybody has a price...

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

But the President is only a bit player, it's the Ayatollah and military who have the real authority. What we saw this summer was that the circle of clerics is not as tight as we once believed.

I don't buy the idea that Iran is going to nuke Israel.

Iran has interests, everybody has a price...

-spence

Exactly, Spence. Ahmadinejad really isn't supposed to have authority over the nuclear weapons program in Iran, yet he's the one making the most noise about it. He's kind of like another President who likes to be involved in everything.

Just because he won't nuke Isreal, doesn't mean that he's someone who other world leaders should trust. Time and time again, he's made comments that point to him as being a loose cannon.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Exactly, Spence. Ahmadinejad really isn't supposed to have authority over the nuclear weapons program in Iran, yet he's the one making the most noise about it. He's kind of like another President who likes to be involved in everything.

Yes, that's exactly it. He makes "noise"...

This isn't rocket science. The more the rest of the world think's he is a whack job the more power he has. He has no legal authority to order any Iranian forces to move.

You do know the game of poker was invented by Persians don't you?

Just because he won't nuke Isreal, doesn't mean that he's someone who other world leaders should trust. Time and time again, he's made comments that point to him as being a loose cannon.

Trust? Hell no...he's extremely manipulative.

But it's not like Obama is going to sit down for a little chat. Any negotiation would be between his people and our people. If there is any concession we need to have clear and easily verifiable benchmarks. We need to have the G5 on our side before we sit at the table.

There is another way you know. We could call Iran a bunch of names, insult the rest of the World, cry foul when they didn't show us their cards and refuse to speak with them until they agreed to give up their position before we met.

If it comes to it, we need to bring some pain.

Yes, the Bush strategy...look where it got us in 8 years. The irony is that before the "Axis of Evil" speech, Iran was helping us after 9/11. We even had a mutual interest!

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

I don't buy the idea that Iran is going to nuke Israel.

-spence

easy for you to say, your children don't live in Israel...

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by spence

I think Obama is playing this one pretty well...

He reached out to the people and in doing so exposed how weak the central authority really is.

Iran probably felt they were going to get exposed, but they screwed up. Instead of jumping too soon, Obama let Iran make a big mistake by stating they did have a facility in violation of the UN and exposing their lie. Probably a little luck was involved in the timing right around the UN meeting.

If he can negotiate some support from Russia, they may actually get stiffer measures passed, but China will be a major roadblock.

People can laugh all they want about the prospects of a dialogue, but ultimately we do need a closer relationship. Isolation has just made things worse.

-spence

RIJIMMY
Very well said.

Be exposed! The Jewish intellegent service probably already knew

Stalin and Hitler had dialogue and a close relationship too, that is until Hitler attacked.

The UN has starved the North Koreans and and strict sanctions for years and plenty of dialogue, dialogue, dialogue and they still got materials for rockets. What makes Iran any different?

It's time to unleash the Jewish Air Force