GOOD OL,E USA ><><>><

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

I'm glad to hear it was a JOP and not a judge. Still pretty backwards thinking though!

Seriously, like thinking the judgement of a latina woman is better than a white male, crazy!

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by numbskull

They have bathrooms in Louisiana?

Yep.....But if you here Banjo music, Pull 'em up REAL Quick.......and sinch that belt tight.

[RIJIMMY]

I actually agree with Cool Beans. Not a big deal. Whatever happened to "I may not agree with your opinion but will die for your right to say it". Its his opinion, his choice. Ask yourself this - How many churches across america will not let people of other faiths marry in their churches? Will Catholic priests marry non-Catholics? Can you be divorced and get married in a church? Before you jump all over me - Im in an inter-racial marriage and have little mixed kiddies.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I actually agree with Cool Beans. Not a big deal. Whatever happened to "I may not agree with your opinion but will die for your right to say it". Its his opinion, his choice. Ask yourself this - How many churches across america will not let people of other faiths marry in their churches? Will Catholic priests marry non-Catholics? I didnt think so.
Before you jump all over me - Im in an inter-racial marriage and have little mixed kiddies.

"I may not agree with your opinion but will die for your right to say it." doesn't apply to people in the public service.

Churches are completely different from public service workers - separation of church and state.

Should Emergency Medical Professionals legally be allowed to ignore someone dying of an overdose, due to a feeling of "if he doesn't care enough for his life, why should I?"

Should an investigator be able to ignore a scantily dressed woman's report of being raped because "she was probably asking for it"? It's his opinion.

You have a right to your opinion if you want to be critical of the President, state that global warming does or doesn't exist, or go to the town hall and tell them there are too many trees in town. You have an obligation to be and objective, neutral party when you're a civil service worker.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

"I may not agree with your opinion but will die for your right to say it." doesn't apply to people in the public service.

Churches are completely different from public service workers - separation of church and state.

Should Emergency Medical Professionals legally be allowed to ignore someone dying of an overdose, due to a feeling of "if he doesn't care enough for his life, why should I?"

Should an investigator be able to ignore a scantily dressed woman's report of being raped because "she was probably asking for it"? It's his opinion.

You have a right to your opinion if you want to be critical of the President, state that global warming does or doesn't exist, or go to the town hall and tell them there are too many trees in town. You have an obligation to be and objective, neutral party when you're a civil service worker.

so whats the debate? I said its no big deal. yes a public servant broke the rules,,,,,,so? Fire him, take away his liscence, who cares But to make front page headlines is silly or think this is some massive undercurrent in society. More fuel for the race pimps. something out of nothing.
BTW - it is policy and LAW that many public entities use the color of someones skin to make decisions about them - its called affirmative action. outrage? disgust?

dad F - I agree w/you. But this is NOT newsworthy.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

But this is NOT newsworthy.

I agree with that too....waste of time.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

so whats the debate? I said its no big deal. yes a public servant broke the rules,,,,,,so? Fire him, take away his liscence, who cares But to make front page headlines is silly or think this is some massive undercurrent in society. More fuel for the race pimps. something out of nothing.
BTW - it is policy and LAW that many public entities use the color of someones skin to make decisions about them - its called affirmative action. outrage? disgust?

dad F - I agree w/you. But this is NOT newsworthy.

No, you said you agree with what Cool Beans said, who basically stated that Bardwell was in the right for doing what he did.
Any race discrimination story makes headlines because it fires people up. Some people are in disbelief that the actions still take place, others play the "see I told you it still happens" card, and some agree with the discrimination.

Affirmative action is outdated and is on its way out. But stories like this add fuel to the fire and for some, justify a continued need for affirmative action.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I actually agree with Cool Beans. Not a big deal. Whatever happened to "I may not agree with your opinion but will die for your right to say it". Its his opinion, his choice.

His opinion can begin after he issues the State license.....then he is more than free to send them somewhere else for the ceremony. Can the guy at the registry refuse to issue you a license or plates because he feels that a black man has a better chance of being in an accident.

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Ask yourself this - How many churches across america will not let people of other faiths marry in their churches? Will Catholic priests marry non-Catholics? I didnt think so.

That is for the ceremonial portion of the process.....can the clerk at the town hall who issues the License say No based on that same argument.....I didn't think so.

[PaulS]

he should resign.

[fishbones]

I just read the story and the JP actually says " I try to treat everyone equally". I guess he means he tries to treat anyone who isn't in a mixed race relationship equally.

JP's aren't state employees. They are appointed or elected and can legally marry people, but not much else.

[RIJIMMY]

he didnt say they CANT, he just said he WONT

[RIJIMMY]

What he is doing is using his judgement to influence what he feels will be best in the future for potential children. I agree with all of you, its crazy. But, I agree with CB, that its his option. he chooses not to marry interracial couples. he should be punished as appropriate by the law. But does this qualify for a discrimination suit? God help us. oops. I mean heaven help us. I mean, what do I mean?

[RIJIMMY]

I think you are all whacked today. How did he superimpose his beliefs?
He said no, I'm not doing it. period
The key is I"M not doing it as in HE is not doing it.
HIS CHOICE.
I disagree with his choice and let him pay the price, but what most of you are doing is superimposing your beliefs on HIM! Abortion is legal, do all doctors HAVE to perform an abortion?

[FishermanTim]

Let's stick with the issue of the marriage.

As a public official, he has the right to say no to a couple, but not for HIS reasons, like his concerns over their having an interracial child.
If he were denying them his services because they were brother and sister, 1st cousins, or a man and a sheep then it would be ligit because of legal circumstances.
Once he denied them based on his SPECULATIONS on what a child of thiers may/may not have to deal with, he crossed the line.

Now if he specifically interjected race into his explaination to the couple, they might be able to claim racial discrimination. Otherwise, they can claim their civil rights have been denied: the right as a couple to get married.
Unless a law has been passed that outlaws/forbids interracial marriages, he cannot deny them the marriage certificate.

If he only denied them the CEREMONY, then all they have is a complaint to the powers that be in that neck of the woods.

I'm done. Have a nice warm dry weekend!

[Clammer]

SORRY I MADE THE 1ST POST ><><><



BUT ::


25 years ago my sister met a guy while she was living & working in BOSTON ............ he was from Virginia .
They decided to get married & have the service in Boston .
They got married ina Catholic church / he isn,t catholic // I couldn,t care less .
If she was happy /I was happy for her .
NOW GET THIS ::

WITHOUT HERE KNOWLEDGE

when they played the music to leave the church / walking down the isle stuff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He paid them to play >>>>>>>>>>>> Dixie & had the Conferarite {SP} Flag flying from the church ;;

to this day I don,t know how he got out of Boston alive ;;

&&&&&&&&&& If I knew later /now .what was going on in that marriage while they went back to Virginia .he wouldn,t look for a job >UP NORTH }}
ON SHELIA,s soul / he,d be F $%^&*( dead or as close as you can get ;;
That,s also the reason I didn,t find out about things until years later ;;

After going to Virginia /in the time they were married / with my wife & young kids .I can say they really / truly believe the south will rise again ;;
They even had prices for locals & then a price for northerners // on things / like repair service, home heating oil/ stuff that doesn,t have price tags on it ;;

Payback is a bitch & I ain,t dead yeT

[Cool Beans]

Many good points here, however Dadfisherman, a marriage license can be obtained at any of Virginia's 62 county clerks offices. Which on the Virginia website states should be applied for 30 days prior to the wedding day.

The justice of the peace is elected by each county, and governed by the county. If the county clerk gave them a license and the Justice says he wont do it, then there is little difference between him and the preacher refusing to marry someone not of his church.

If he was the county clerk refusing, then it would be a much different story.

It is not News Worthy and the only reason it's there is to stir up race problems. And like RIJimmy, I am married to a woman of a different race than me. My 3 kids are bi-racial and have had a few issues that they have dealt with in the past. Many of you (JohnnyD and the like) seem ot have their head so far up their "High Horse's" Ass to see reality. Every time someone throws down the race card, IT IS NOT NEWS!!!

[spence]

It's absolutely newsworthy if only for the absurdity of it all. Doesn't mean I'd expect to see it on the front page of the WSJ, but a lot of people would be interested in hearing about it.

Quite possibly the guy broke the law as well.

-spence

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

It is not News Worthy and the only reason it's there is to stir up race problems. And like RIJimmy, I am married to a woman of a different race than me. My 3 kids are bi-racial and have had a few issues that they have dealt with in the past. Many of you (JohnnyD and the like) seem ot have their head so far up their "High Horse's" Ass to see reality. Every time someone throws down the race card, IT IS NOT NEWS!!!

In this case, it's not a generic race issue (as in any ol' race), it's a black guy marrying a white woman issue.

Just because your true, ignorant colors have shown, doesn't mean I have my head up my ass. You probably have the most absurd, close-minded opinion regarding just about any topic. Unless you're married to a black woman, you really have no business trying to relate yourself to the situation.

What exactly is the reality, since I'm so far up in the stink to see it? Because I think the reality is that even in 2009, racism is still quite prevalent everywhere, but almost socially acceptable in the South.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

The justice of the peace is elected by each county, and governed by the county. If the county clerk gave them a license and the Justice says he wont do it, then there is little difference between him and the preacher refusing to marry someone not of his church.

If he was the county clerk refusing, then it would be a much different story.

Again, no problem refusing to perform the ceremony, but in the aspect of obtaining the license, he is acting in the same regard as a county clerk. he should just have issued it.

and the fact that he is an Elected Official makes it even worse.

I remember people getting all worked up because an Elected Official sided with a Black man over a White Cop....and that it was totally outrageous. But now we have an elected official siding with "Racial Purity" over "Mixed Race" and its A-OK ......Can't have it both ways

[buckman]

It takes all kinds. I can't imagine anyone shocked by this. It's not right but I believe that reverse racism is almost as bad and maybe even hinders peoples ability to be more tolerant. Why can't we have a colorblind society?

[EarnedStripes44]

What Paul said....

Content of their character, not the color of their skin.

I thought the greatest beneficiaries of affirmative action have been women, white women at that.

[RIJIMMY]

yup

[The Dad Fisherman]

There are Racists and A-Holes in all 50 states......none are better and none are worse.....(Well, Maybe Alabama )

it all depends on the experiences you have when you visit an area. All it takes is one a-hole to make you think that northerners are snobs or southerners are inbread. You could meet 10 people and 9 of them could be the salt of the earth....but that 10th one is the one you will reference as to character of the area. Its easier to lump people together in a category than try and see the differences.

Earlier it was stated the JOP was an elected official. If that is true then he is drawing money from tax dollars.....possibly this couple's tax dollars. So he needs to put his personal beliefs aside and do his job, which was to issue a marriage license. After that, if he didn't want to perform the ceremony for personal reasons...provided its not a requirement of his elected position....he can pass.

If it is part of his elected position then he has a choice...marry them or not. With that choice comes options.....if he marries them then he gets paid...if he doesn't then he gets fired....but that his choice. If he can sleep better at night with whatever he chooses...great. His beliefs are intact and he can find other employment...

[RIJIMMY]

"Disciplinary action should be taken immediately — including the revoking of his license," Jindal said."

end of story.

[scottw]

and they should confiscate his Elvis costume

[Joe]

I would like to kill several people. I have fashioned Voodoo Dolls of these people, and I stick pins in them in them each morning, and I spend about ten minutes a day meditating on bad thoughts about them. I've gotten a few over the years also. (Or maybe their demise was a coincidence).
But I'm smart about it. I contain my thoughts and actions to the small makeshift Voodoo room I've set up in my basement. Nobody knows - because outwardly, I'm polite and kind to all - the Thought Police got nothing on me. Ha! Ha! Ha!
If a person is a closet racist, but he never articulates this, and his actions never reflect his racism, then society never knows he is a racist because there is no evidence of such. Once a person takes action, evidence emerges and it becomes a different matter.
We don't abandon our ideals simply because an idiot JOP in an Elvis costume falls short of fulfilling his sworn obligation of upholding them.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Joe

I would like to kill several people.

this IS a good thread

[Joe]

I'll trade you a Jointed RM Swimmer for some hair and nail samples and a recent photo.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Joe

I would like to kill several people. I have fashioned Voodoo Dolls of these people, and I stick pins in them in them each morning, and I spend about ten minutes a day meditating on bad thoughts about them. I've gotten a few over the years also. (Or maybe their demise was a coincidence).
But I'm smart about it. I contain my thoughts and actions to the small makeshift Voodoo room I've set up in my basement. Nobody knows - because outwardly, I'm polite and kind to all - the Thought Police got nothing on me. Ha! Ha! Ha!
If a person is a closet racist, but he never articulates this, and his actions never reflect his racism, then society never knows he is a racist because there is no evidence of such. Once a person takes action, evidence emerges and it becomes a different matter.
We don't abandon our ideals simply because an idiot JOP in an Elvis costume falls short of fulfilling his sworn obligation of upholding them.

like it or not, racism is not illegal. Discrimination is and those who do, should be punished.

I love this stuff, I could debate all day - here is one for you -

Bill is a computer programmer, great resume, great personality, etc. He is interviewing with Sally for a new position. The interview is goign extremely well, they hit it off, Bill is exactly what Sally needs. As the interview concludes, Sally says she is off to lunch, and will walk Bill to his car. As they get to Bill's car, Sally notices the swastika and other nazi parphanalia in Bill's car. Bill says goodbye to Sally and reiterates his interest in the role. Sally is Jewish.
So, will Bill get the job? Of course not. However - were his civil rights violated? Sally did not hire him based on his personal beliefs, that is illegal. Although Bill's affiliations may be deplorable, he still has rights. Now what it Sally was muslim and Bill had a cross or christian symbols in his car? Millions of Muslims were massacared by Christian while they pulled out from the Crusades? Where do we draw the line with freedom and discrimination. That was the point I was trying to get across with my posts. Interesting stuff for those that like to think.

[Joe]

The sign read, "Jack-Booted Nazis - Need not apply"
So I took my armband off, and went in to ask them why.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that if you're a JOP and it can be proven that you refused to marry an interracial couple - you've probably opened yourself up to some kind of legal action.

My comments were confined to that context, however I did not reiterate that point in the second-to-last paragraph - sorry.
Correct, there's nothing illegal about being a racist.
The other stuff I can't debate because I've spent too much time over here today.