MSBA Action Alert--Protect Fishing License Bill Today

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Arguing the difference between the word "license" and the word "registry" is the exact same as arguing the difference between an ORV "permit" or "inspection sticker". We are required to be counted, analyzed and will pay to fish in salt water whether you call it a license, a registry or Schindler's list. It surely tastes bad but we lost that fight.

As far as the Feds managing the registry, I was one of the last recreational fishing leaders to abandon the position that we should let the Feds manage the registry.

I changed my mind after I attended a briefing where NMFS representatives explained that there would be no regional or national registry and even a federally managed program will be implemented on a state by state basis, 2) The cost would be "similar" to the that of the HMS(aka Tuna) Permit and would return no additional services for that price and 3)The interpretation of the anadramous fish language is not as you claim but is that all anglers in the mairne environment will be required to register. MSBA also submitted questions to NMFS that were answered and published as well.

I would rather not have a license but that ship has sailed. Either way I am convinced that after we are counted all bag limits will be reduced as I think there are more rec fishers than any of us think. The more of us there are the less fish we can harvest.

I agree that the ship has sailed, but that doesn't change what I said. The ship sailed when the state politicos saw the money and decided to grab it. The feds were complicit, in that they didn't want to administer a "registry" so they pushed the states to enact licensing. As for the term andromonous, the feds can say anything they like (which they did to push for state licenses) but no court in this world would "interpret" that term the way they did.

[TheSpecialist]

As far as I am concerned if someone in this state buys a sporting liscence they should be covered for all fishing and hunting.

[MakoMike]

If the RFA can come up with enough money to sue the feds over the sea bass closure, and the United Boatmen of NY can sue both the feds and ASMFC over their fluke quotas, I'm sure the money can be found. Besides, lots of fishermen are lawyers and many would work pro bono on such a case. I know I would.

[fishonnelsons]

I sent it in, but.....

Whine whine whine, and I will. If not this year, you can bet that sometime the $$$ will be spread out and not get directed toward the fisherman.

Second, if we just got the federal license, because some license is a given unfortunately, at least the federal license might have been good for more states than just 1 or 2.

With individual states, when New Jersey, New York, Vermont, Conn., Maine people come to Mass to fish (I leave out Rhody and New Hamp. as they border Mass. and maybe we will honor their licenses and vice versa), they will have to buy another license - how long before they say %^$# that and not come? That might be nice for some, but as a business owner in this industry it sucks. And please don't tell me the charge will be minimal - today maybe, in a few years who knows, and what about the family with a few teenagers - buy 4 licenses, right.

If I am wrong with the thought process, someone please correct me.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishonnelsons

I sent it in, but.....

Whine whine whine, and I will. If not this year, you can bet that sometime the $$$ will be spread out and not get directed toward the fisherman.

Second, if we just got the federal license, because some license is a given unfortunately, at least the federal license might have been good for more states than just 1 or 2.

With individual states, when New Jersey, New York, Vermont, Conn., Maine people come to Mass to fish (I leave out Rhody and New Hamp. as they border Mass. and maybe we will honor their licenses and vice versa), they will have to buy another license - how long before they say %^$# that and not come? That might be nice for some, but as a business owner in this industry it sucks. And please don't tell me the charge will be minimal - today maybe, in a few years who knows, and what about the family with a few teenagers - buy 4 licenses, right.

If I am wrong with the thought process, someone please correct me.

Rich, I can agree with you and unfortunately, what's advantageous for the average Cape Fisherman (fewer Jersey Barriers and New Yorkers bunking in on top of us when trying to beach fish) means less traffic through your store.

The erratic beach closures and seals aren't helping that either though. I know of 3 people that have gotten stickers for the Race for over the last 10 years (one person for probably over 20 years) that won't be getting stickers. If I were from NY or NJ, why plan a vacation and drive 6 hours to a place that might be unfishable, closed or sealed out. Just from the short history I have experienced, it seems like they are more and more aggressive with closing the beaches at will.

[fishonnelsons]

So true, the beach closures, seals, mung, make it a tough journey to take for those south of us. Add in a non-resident license and that might be the straw that breaks my back. Maybe I'll just do my charters - less aggravation and I am at least on the water!

[MakoMike]

Momentum builds to stop fishing license law
Cuomo refuses to defend DEC as more towns join East End suit
BY CARA LORIZ | EDITOR


#^&#^&#^&#^& BAKER PHOTO Fishing continues this fall in Island and South Fork waters as a lawsuit to stop a marine recreational license builds steam and support. Mike Loriz wrestled this striped bass aboard #^&#^&#^&#^& Baker's boat earlier this month. Island anglers can continue to fish license free, town officials reported this week.
The injunction against a New York State marine fishing license is “becoming pretty indefinite,” Town Supervisor Jim Dougherty said at Friday's Town Board meeting, and two more towns — Huntington and Brookhaven — have joined the lawsuit filed by Shelter Island, Southampton and East Hampton challenging the state's authority to regulate their water resources.

Town Attorney Laury Dowd received court papers Friday from the state Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) acknowledging that Attorney General Andrew Cuomo would not defend the agency in the state court suit; the case has been adjourned until mid-November. In withdrawing from the litigation, Mr. Cuomo cited problems in implementing the licenses and said that a hasty implementation of the law would “jeopardize” Long Island fishing communities. “In my opinion, the law should not take effect for several months,” he said in a statement issued last week and published in Newsday.

“I think Southampton deserves a pat on the back” for the lawsuit's success thus far, Councilman Glenn Waddington said Friday. “They're the ones who got this going.” Southampton Town Attorney Joseph Lombardo is the lead litigator for the suit based on the East End town's colonial patent rights.

Southampton's State Assemblymen Fred Thiele opposed the law creating the license from the outset. Mr. Thiele commended the Attorney General's action. “Attorney General Cuomo has again demonstrated common sense that is often lacking in Albany,” he said in a press release.

Mr. Thiele said he will renew efforts to repeal the law; the senate adjourned for the year before acting on an earlier Thiele bill to postpone the license law until January 2010. Mr. Thiele has also requested that legislation be added to Governor David Paterson's special session agenda for October 28, 2009 that would delay the enactment of the fishing license law until July 1, 2010. During that delay, license opponents could maneuver for a compromise to eliminate the license and replace it with a one-time, free registration program.

The state law establishing the license was developed in response to a federal one requiring better monitoring of recreational fishing harvests. The license law was adopted during the state budget process last spring and the fees it imposes — $10 per year for residents, $250 per year for charter boat captains — were expected to raise 3 million dollars for the state. The legislature set an October 1 start date for the license, requiring all recreational saltwater anglers to purchase a license that would only be good for three months; another license would have to be purchased in January good throughout 2010.

But implementing the new law was problematic. The DEC did not have a license distribution system in place when the law went into effect. The agency's on-line licensing system, DECALS, couldn't issue a three-month license; it had to be reprogrammed, which took weeks. Commercial license vendors also reported difficulties in getting information and licensing materials as did Town Clerk Dorothy Ogar, who issues hunting licenses for the state.

U.S. Senator Charles Schumer joined the effort to end the state license last week, calling on the federal government to create a free, life-time saltwater fishing license. The senator made a direct appeal to the U.S. Department of Commerce and the New York State DEC, asking them to set up a free, easy and convenient registration process for Long Island's saltwater fishing community, describing the current system is “too onerous.”

“The bottom line is the current system places far too great a burden on Long Island anglers who are already struggling day to day,” Mr. Schumer said in a statement to the press. “This is not the time to change the system and impose new fees. While we must ensure that adequate scientific data is available to keep fishing stocks thriving, we can't do it on the backs of fishermen.”

Mr. Schumer said that the Magnuson-Stevens Act, the federal law that governs fishing up and down the east coast, stipulates certain requirements for state programs to be in compliance with federal rules. However, those rules do not require that states impose a fee or an annual registration. The DEC can set up a new system that is free for fisherman and permanent, so they only have to register once in their lifetime, and still be in compliance with federal reporting requirements. Delaware is using such a system and New Jersey is considering one.

Mr. Schumer also wrote to the head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration asking them to work with the DEC and local communities to ensure the new systems are in compliance.

The state Supreme Court injunction against the licenses in Shelter Island, Southampton and East Hampton waters, filed September 30, will continue at least through mid-November when Judge Patrick Sweeney has scheduled the court proceedings to reconvene.

At Friday's meeting, Councilman Peter Reich couldn't resist making a closing commentary: “There's something fishy about this law.”

Original at: The Shelter Island Reporter

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishonnelsons

So true, the beach closures, seals, mung, make it a tough journey to take for those south of us. Add in a non-resident license and that might be the straw that breaks my back. Maybe I'll just do my charters - less aggravation and I am at least on the water!

Very true. Gets you away from that desk. Btw, heard you landed one that day Paul and I saw you out there. Congrats!

[BasicPatrick]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

I agree that the ship has sailed, but that doesn't change what I said. The ship sailed when the state politicos saw the money and decided to grab it. The feds were complicit, in that they didn't want to administer a "registry" so they pushed the states to enact licensing. As for the term andromonous, the feds can say anything they like (which they did to push for state licenses) but no court in this world would "interpret" that term the way they did.

Mike...I agree with the general theory but in the real world it will not matter as no one will come up with the money to challenge it in court. Do you have half a million or so laying around. Just to get into a case like this it cost 500K. We are 700K plus into the Hatteras access law suits and are not even half way down the road.

[Flaptail]

Patrick, I respect you and think of you as a friend but I work for and have worked in the past for municipal and the state govt. Right now I get paid by three towns and one school district.

The reason we have the fisheries situation we now have is because of mis management, lobbys of the commercial fisheries and political cronieisms.

Your dreaming if you think that a license and it's associated fees will ever fix this mess. I see what the state promises and what it actually does and it's affect on childrens education, thier welfare and the programs that monies from tax revenues go to or have been earmarked for by legislation. Programs and services vital to that cause, once thought to be off limits and at times proposed and forwarded as such, are now fair game for the governor to plunder under emergency executive powers. Bussing, health care and health education, special education, nurses in schools, after school programs for disadvantaged kids and many others once funded by the state have seen huge cuts due to the governor asking for and being given executive emergency powers.

If you think that programs for fisheries management, research and enforcement will be held above all other state and municipal funded programs as untouchable while education and other essential services are felled by the governors budget cutting axe, your being mislead and misleading others into the same train of thought.

I have no other agenda than common sense. I beleive strongly that the marine fisheries of this state need help but to think that the revenue from licenses will remain in the sole possession and purview of the Div of Marine fisheries your wrong.

I live it every day, I deal with notifications weekly of what was supposedly untouchable funding being taken completely away or drastically cut to buoy up the states ailing coffers.

As a lobbyist for this you cerrtainly are going at it with a huge amount of passion. I know how many meetings and such you attend and the places you go and you obviously beleive that your right.

You are right, a license is coming, it's enevitable and politicians will support it, it draws in another segment of thier voting or potential voting constituency, something they all could use come election day.

But mark my words, the day will come when the revenue brought in by this will be attached by the governor by special executive emergency powers and all we will get is a burden of a license with no real enforcement, it will affect all the mom and pop tackle shops whose main business was not the sale of VanStals, custom rods and high end plugs but by the guy who buys a box of seaworms some hooks and simple weights to fish off of a bridge or pier or those who want to take thier kid out on the jetty a couple times while on vacation. A license for saltwater will deter a lot of that and that margin will make or break tackle shops already living on the edge.

I am against it, I am against it being forced down our throats to fund a mis managed state agency with a horrible track record in cod, flounder and other speicies management and most of all a realist after 20 odd years of intimately seeing how the state works and how funding comes and goes.

Clean house at these agencies, get real managers outside of the influence of special interests be it commercial or recreational fisherman, set new regualtions and have them enforced outside of the 9 to 5 workday.

It stinks, period.