Mass. weighs tougher protections for striped bass

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

I would like to see the slot size a little higher... like 28-34

That size slot is smack dab in the middle of the fish they are trying to protect. The 20-26" fish are going to have a much higher number of males -v - the almost exclusive only females in the 28-34 (really anything over 28). Protecting classes of fish in the 28-39" range is going to keep a lot more breeders open and available.

[nightfighter]

So what exactly causes such a drastic decline (read extinction) of the male species upon reaching the magical 28" length???? Always wondered that. (Do the females torture their males as much as humans do????)
And as for that slot I mentioned, it is because I get a little more jazz when the fish is say 34" as opposed to a low twenty inch fish, that's all....

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

So what exactly causes such a drastic decline (read extinction) of the male species upon reaching the magical 28" length???? Always wondered that. (Do the females torture their males as much as humans do????)
And as for that slot I mentioned, it is because I get a little more jazz when the fish is say 34" as opposed to a low twenty inch fish, that's all....

Figured

Why is the life expectancy for women 8 years more than men? How many licks to the center of a...

Don't know. The males don't get very big, the females do. Nearly every fish caught over 20#s is a she.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by JohnR

That size slot is smack dab in the middle of the fish they are trying to protect. The 20-26" fish are going to have a much higher number of males -v - the almost exclusive only females in the 28-34 (really anything over 28). Protecting classes of fish in the 28-39" range is going to keep a lot more breeders open and available.

Here's the thinking behind a slot as I understand it and its based on some Ted Williams(not the baseball player, the writer) penned articles I've read.

The lower size on a slot limit allows meat fishers to reach their intended goal easier, which is to kill a fish to eat without having to sift through and release a bunch of sub legal fish in order to cull out a keeper. Williams cites lower fish mortality due to a decrease in bycatch mortality which comes from fewer fish being hooked. This is particularly true with charter operations who mostly get paid to put fish on the dock. Culling must occur under this scenario.
Lowering the daily bag to one fish makes excellent sense as the charter operators now can legallly take up to 28 fish per day all season if they desire. A one fish per day limit would cut this number to 14.

Implementing a 28"-40" slot allows for breeder fish to reproduce several times before being legal to harvest. Right now we hit them just as they are reaching thier spawning ability at 28".

I like the proposed plan as I believe the commercial striped bass fishery in Mass is a total farce. Although I've sold my share of fish over the years and still posess a license, its really just gas money most people are using the dead fish for, plain and simple.

I would, however, be entirely against a "no keep" law, which may eventually arise from this process. Keeping one for the table should always be a part of the equation.

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by JohnR

That size slot is smack dab in the middle of the fish they are trying to protect. The 20-26" fish are going to have a much higher number of males -v - the almost exclusive only females in the 28-34 (really anything over 28). Protecting classes of fish in the 28-39" range is going to keep a lot more breeders open and available.

John, that does proect the fish you're suggesting we protect

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Canalman

John, that does proect the fish you're suggesting we protect

It does, provided there's enough fish passing through the slot size, which depends on what was born in previous years. If you get a large year class of fish born it makes sense to me the managers would have to anticipate the age/length and implement the slot accordingly for it to provide any real benefit.

If a 28"-40" slot gets implemented but the fish are all either too big/too small its a wasted effort. The slot also has to coincide with good year classes of fish in order to provide the highest yield of protected breeders.

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

It does, provided there's enough fish passing through the slot size, which depends on what was born in previous years. If you get a large year class of fish born it makes sense to me the managers would have to anticipate the age/length and implement the slot accordingly for it to provide any real benefit.

If a 28"-40" slot gets implemented but the fish are all either too big/too small its a wasted effort. The slot also has to coincide with good year classes of fish in order to provide the highest yield of protected breeders.

Righth there with ya. Look at the year classes though, this would protect the 2001 class which was the biggest ever recorded.

-Dave

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jackbass

This is extremely legit. The bill has been sponsored for over a year and you are hearing about it now because it made it to committee. Once the committee decides it is worthy of a vote in the house it will be in fact a bill.

Yes, certainly aware of the effort having been made and certainly aware that it was going in - this was the first I saw of it coming out.

Originally Posted by Jackbass

The commercial striped bass industry in Massachusetts is second in take only to Maryland. Eliminating the commercial market in MA and reducing the Rec take to one fish a day goes a long way in conserving the striped Bass. I am surprised this is news to everyone.

The commercial bass industry in Mass may take second to Maryland but the rec take up and down the coats is tremendous and way overshadows the commercial take. IMO, we need to focus more to reduce the size taken out of the pie to protect the fish, than to decide who's piece is how big.

We really should be having these groups working on what the pie eats. Anything that just reallocates to another usergroup (or state) is really politics and not in the interest of the fish.

I don't commercial fish, I have not, I don't now, and unless there is a massive overpopulation in the future (yeh right) I probably won't then. I do release 99% of what I catch.

Originally Posted by Jackbass

Stripers Forever is hardly an Elitist group. It is a group that is run by volunteers has and spends every dime it receives to conserve and protect the Striped Bass. To think the members of Stripers Forever are a bunch of Orvis Casting Land Rover Driving elitists is simply ignorant.

I don't fall in line behind SF because I don't think it is the right fight, Rovers, Orvis, or not - and I don't think I have ever said that and if I have - not in a long time, while sober, or being even remotely serious about fisheries management.

Originally Posted by CowHunter

And you have absolutley not a CLUE as to what the Rec take is state to state, NO CLUE whatsoever. Just blame it on the Mass com's....

Nope people don't know, and that poorly pushed through fed license is probably going to help refine those numbers. but who is this directed to??

Originally Posted by Canalman

Wow, First I've heard of this. It's about time!

He lives

Originally Posted by Canalman

John, that does proect the fish you're suggesting we protect

Somewhat. It would be nice to be able to go and protect specific year classes or even define based on guestimate of male to female, and 50 other factors, but there is enough problems getting people to know who much they can legal take when it is one or two fish. A slot would be harder (and worth it IMO). A variable slot could be better in fantasy land but it would never work.

Originally Posted by Canalman

Biggest problem I see with the commercial fishery is that the guys who are good are trained assassins. They can hover over a body of big fish and do some real damage. Bodies of fish are vulnerable to being wiped out if the fleet anchors up over their heads. If these guys take their 30 fish from a pod of 100, that's a third of a migrating or resident pod of fish that has likely been programmed (genetically) to run a certain route, breed a certain river. Take a third away--that's bad enough--but what about when the other 15 boats within binocular range come motoring over to drop their yo-yo's how many are left then?

I've seen some great hauls come into the commercial place near my house---seen many 50's and a 64 there. But they don't hold a candle to the thousands of 30's I've seen stiff and covered with crushed ice. It really does need to stop.

We should not support the Striper Cup either though... that list of pin winner is like Schindlers List for striped bass

A high percentage of the commercial guys DO NOT NEED TO BE FISHING TO SUSTAIN THEMSELVES ANYWAY. It's a double-paid vacation for them.

If we are to keep the commercial fishery alive, you should have to prove that commercial fishing makes up more that 50% of your yearly income.

-Dave

Agree 70%

Originally Posted by Back Beach

It does, provided there's enough fish passing through the slot size, which depends on what was born in previous years. If you get a large year class of fish born it makes sense to me the managers would have to anticipate the age/length and implement the slot accordingly for it to provide any real benefit.

If a 28"-40" slot gets implemented but the fish are all either too big/too small its a wasted effort. The slot also has to coincide with good year classes of fish in order to provide the highest yield of protected breeders.

Originally Posted by Canalman

Righth there with ya. Look at the year classes though, this would protect the 2001 class which was the biggest ever recorded.

-Dave

2001 - was the biggest this decade and in top 3 overall. And purely anecdotal, the first major spawn of the 93 year class. Have anything to do with it? Dunno. Not in fisheries management. Then next year sucked but IIRC that was a bad drought year or flood year screwing up the spawn.

[Jackbass]

Cowman you are 100 percent correct no one has any iota of a clue what the Rec take is at this point in time. The Rec Catch that is reported is total catch including fish that are released to fight another day.

The new regs will only allow one fish to be taken per day. Which will further limit the recreational catch.

The MA comm season is in no way tightly regulated. The catch is under reported there is always fish being sold under the radar. Why is it that a large portion of commercial tags go unfilled every year? Do these people not use their license? The Registration is a joke.

[intrepid24]

Originally Posted by Jackbass

Cowman you are 100 percent correct no one has any iota of a clue what the Rec take is at this point in time. The Rec Catch that is reported is total catch including fish that are released to fight another day.

The new regs will only allow one fish to be taken per day. Which will further limit the recreational catch.

The MA comm season is in no way tightly regulated. The catch is under reported there is always fish being sold under the radar. Why is it that a large portion of commercial tags go unfilled every year? Do these people not use their license? The Registration is a joke.

I want to know why people equate com fishing w/ fish sold under the radar.....I AM SICK OF THAT %$%$%$%$ TALK !! LETS TALK ABOUT CHARTER GUYS SELLING THEIR CATCH OUT OF STATE, DAY AFTER DAY.

[Doublerunner]

This will be my 20th post on this site. And since the quantity of your posts seem to be more important to some than the quality I will keep this short.

I believe giving "game fish" status to stripers will help the stock

I also believe a bigger issue is the dragging for menhaden. Take away the bait and the stripers go away as well. In addition to the taking of the bait the draggers also turn the ocean bottom into a barren desert. Depleting it of all plant and marine life

So "game fish" status is a start. There is still more to do

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Doublerunner

I also believe a bigger issue is the dragging for menhaden. Take away the bait and the stripers go away as well. In addition to the taking of the bait the draggers also turn the ocean bottom into a barren desert. Depleting it of all plant and marine life

Amen

Fix the forage. Dial back the overall keep. Poaching, while really weak and despicable, is not what puts the stock in trouble.