Mass. weighs tougher protections for striped bass

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Doublerunner

Seriously though. As I have said from the beginning...a multi faceted approach that has slot limits and restrictions on quantities from both rec and commercial. And also the complete elimination of dragging for menhaden

1. Why does it have to be an F'ing slot.
Make it 1 fish. 36" and things will improve! No need to do a 20-26", alternate Tuesdays with one over 48" on a Friday slot limit. The average person, myself included is an idiot. Keep It Simple!

2. Does anyone actually drag for menhaden, or are you spouting off on what you don't know?
Ban reduction. The pogie debate is oft rehashed, and searchable here, I'm not going to waste my slow typing on rewriting the past. The controlled seining in local waters is pretty closely monitored, and there are tons of pogies in the bay after the boats leave....
go after Omega protein, not Ark Bait et al....

think about it. 1 fish @36" and I bet you cut the number of fish caught and kept by rec angers by 35% (not 50% b/c I don't think everyone keeps 2 all the time, and I don't think as many people catch "Keepers" at 36" than the would at 28".

@ 1/day 36" every 6-pack charter boat goes from being able to take 26 fish / day (assuming two charters/ day) down to 14 fish/day (assuming the capt/crew each keep a limit/day). Think about how many charters are maxed out during a season at any given place on the coast. Or, think of it this way. For 1000 charters with 6 guys keeping a limit, you go from 12000 fish down to 6000 fish (not counting captain and crew). Apply similar reduction to rec boats as well. Apply this up and down the coast. The numbers saved will DWARF the commercial harvest.

UP ENFORCEMENT! Make sure commercials are selling bass to legit dealers ONLY, and make the penalties very stiff for buyer/seller not in compliance.

Up the limit/reduce the season on pre-spawn wintering fish...

Last; I would wager that the number of rec bass caught and killed (not accounting for the release mortality of every light tackle jamoke fishing fish on 12lb gear in deeper water) in just a few weeks this year at BI was vastly larger than the entire RI quota! Lets get some good numbers on release mortality, and some good estimates of recreational fish caught and killed by itself, no estimates of mortality just # of dead fish period. If that means reporting, and a license/registry so be it, but be careful what we wish for. If it works, the rec numbers are going to jump way up IMHO!

[CowHunter]

I posted the 1 fish @36" would make a huge difference. I really have no idea where on earth they come up with a 20" slot?? You think the people that suggested a 20" slot know what they are talking about???
24"-27.99" slot was done in NJ and it was a disaster.... Va still has a slot, but its for a limited time..

[Back Beach]

The slot could be an effective tool provided there's alot of fish in the slot range. The slot size can be adjusted as needed.

1 fish at 36" is great, but it was used as the last leg of an emergency measure last time it was enacted to protect a specific year class.(1982)

As for saving the bait, I'm still of the belief that bass will eat whatever they can get in their mouths, including themselves. Scarcity or abundance of bait is more a localized issue than a coastwide issue.
Many years ago during "herring" season I landed and opened up a real fat fish...it was loaded with sea robins while there were dense schools of herring available nearby.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Many years ago during "herring" season I landed and opened up a real fat fish...it was loaded with sea robins while there were dense schools of herring available nearby.

Hah! I knew it. The effing striped bass are eating all my sea robins. Well that changes it. Give me an eel, I'm gonna go wipe the bazturds out.

Cowhunter, I can't figure this all out. I agree that dead fish are dead fish and recreational anglers kill more fish than commercials. Of course commercials kill a lot more fish per angler than the recs but then the nonfishing public benefits so who is "right"? I don't claim to know. Likewise, you have got me confused.
On one hand you paint yourself as a mighty chief of bass killers and relish flaunting that in the face of those less well endowed, then you turn around and paint yourself as a conservationist, altruist, philanthropist, and true friend of all God's small creatures (other than bunker).
All I can say is that I'm sure you are a good fisherman, smart guy, and interesting person. Best of luck in your tournament.

[jmac]

I have been a commercial rod and reel fisherman since 1972. I have held licenses in RI and MA since licensing was instituted in both states. I file income taxes on all sales of fish. As an aside, I fish recreationally for stripers when they can’t be sold (with a fly rod/light bait-casting I might add). I care deeply for the welfare of ALL fish. I participated in all the striped bass discussion/ forums, etc., in the early 80’s that led to the current regulations promulgated by the AFMSC.
The commercial striped bass fishery has been held to a fixed cap (poundage allowed) for at least 8 or 9 years; it has not increased and is monitored factually. The recreational catch has increased exponentially during that period. People whose job it is to monitor/ regulate the fishery are well aware of that. In MY view, there are several reasons for the recreational increase. Other fish aren’t as “glamorous”, i.e., bluefish, scup, tautog, etc. Another factor, striped bass are a great tasting fish.
In the 70’s, most people I knew were selling bass…..a lot of people did, so they could support their boats, slips, and fondness for fishing. Nowadays, I know few people who fish commercially in both states (they’re just aren’t that many, i.e., licensing procedures, socio-economics, etc). Back then, bluefish, weakfish, tautog, fluke, winter flounder, cod, Pollack, took up the slack. Most of the charter boat industry was trolling rag mops and umbrella rigs for bluefish, chunking for tuna…rarely was the day that the bulk of the charter industry was targeting bass. There were a few at the Rip at Block, the Race in LI Sound, and probably a more dedicated fleet at the Pigs, Chatham, etc.
Nowadays, because the striped bass fishery is in such better shape than it was in the 70, 80’s, more and more recreational fisherman dedicate their effort towards them. Look at spots like SW Point, Ledge, Block Island on a weekend…or Valiant Rock in LI Sound, or Montauk. The East Coast charter industry has dedicated most of their efforts on striped bass…again, take a look at the SW side of Block, Montauk, the Race ( also the proliferation of small boat chartering in inshore bays and sound), Peaked Hill in P-Town, Monomoy…The pressure on striped bass is far greater than anything I saw “back in the old days”….I don’t have any problem with this, the fishery is a resource for ALL fishermen…just don’t blame the commercial rod and reel fisherman (as in MA) for all that is wrong with striped bass. In my eyes, the current situation looks like a ”fish grab” by a certain segment of the fishing community.
I do not see the catastrophic shortage of bass that is discussed in this and other threads….granted, ups and downs in the total biomass are part of the overall fishery. I see a lot of small bass in the early spring in Narragansett Bay (light tackle) and also with pogies during the commercial RI season (in Narragansett Bay). While fishing in MA, I caught a large amount of undersize (commercial limit) bass during the season. If anything, the problem for me and others was the difficulty in finding bait (menhaden).
What baffles me is the utmost disdain that a certain fragment of the recreational sector has for the commercial striped bass fisherman (and sometimes ALL commercial fishermen). Most fishermen I know do it part-time to support their income…just as the part-time carpenter, plumber, landscaper, tax preparer, etc. do, to support their way of life. That is how our capitalistic system works. Also, those who call for half their income come from commercial fishing, would be putting the bulk of the commercial fisherman out of business.
I hate to be long winded, but I had to offer my take on this issue. I did my part for conservation in the early 80’s when the moratorium was in effect (as ALL of us did)- because of that and because we now have laws and commissions which oversee the fishery, we have reached this point where there is a free for all over who gets the biggest share of the pie. All this, because of a well-managed fishery ,that was brought back from near disaster.

-jmac

[MAKAI]

I am completely convinced now that this whole thread is just a money issue.

[Doublerunner]

Regarding the slot sizes I think the size for boat fishermen for rec and for commercial should be different than shore fishermen. Let's face it boats have the technology and ability to get onto large schools and stay on them as they move. Shore guys can not. But if they're all lumped together then that's okay as well. If it's a slot then all fish need to be measured which means ( hopefully ) getting rid of nets because nets would kill too many fish that would not be appropriate size

1 fish at 36" is not bad but I don't know that that is the best solution. It doesn't have to be an "F'ing slot". A regular old "slot" all by itself is okay with me.

Menhaden is a huge industry. Ever seen the ocean bottom before and after seining? it goes from a robust living city to a desert....like an atom bomb wiped it out. With no structure and weeds the baitfish do not return and without baitfish no predators return. Menhaden also gobble up a lot of the pollutants in the ocean. I believe it's a huge problem and one that should be banned

Up enforcement...agreed

Up the limit on pre-spawn and wintering fish....no. Should be banned

Accurate numbers for mortality from rec fishermen. Definitely

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Doublerunner

Menhaden is a huge industry. Ever seen the ocean bottom before and after seining? it goes from a robust living city to a desert....like an atom bomb wiped it out. With no structure and weeds the baitfish do not return and without baitfish no predators return.

Menhaden also gobble up a lot of the pollutants in the ocean. I believe it's a huge problem and one that should be banned

Up the limit on pre-spawn and wintering fish....no. Should be banned

It's an F'ing slot b/c w/ bass I haven't seen a study that really shows it is the best thing.
Just up the size back to 36" and there will be less fish killed, which is the goal, right?

You are confusing seining and dragging. In my other life I worked in a small part of a study on the impacts of gear to the bottom, and you're right in some bottom types it is very detrimental. that's dragging, though, not seining.

The ocean pollutant argument was bad science RISAA tried to pass off. If people read the menhaden symposium report, THE pogy experts talked and put most of those claims to rest. very interesting conference a year or so ago.

I meant make the limit tighter on pre-spawn fish, not more allowed to be caught.

[numbskull]

Just to stir the pot, most recreational fishermen struggle to catch a 36" fish.....many have never even seen a 36" fish. Letting a casual fisherman have a realistic chance to take home a fish to feed and poison his family with is every bit as valid a management goal as lining the pockets of the guys who sell lots of 40 lb fish to feed and poison the public. Granted, it would mean implementation of a recreational season to control catch numbers.....but what good is an open season to a guy who only catches 26" fish? I'm not advocating it, but what is the rational against it?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Just to stir the pot, most recreational fishermen struggle to catch a 36" fish.....many have never even seen a 36" fish. Letting a casual fisherman have a realistic chance to take home a fish to feed and poison his family with is every bit as valid a management goal as lining the pockets of the guys who sell lots of 40 lb fish to feed and poison the public. Granted, it would mean implementation of a recreational season to control catch numbers.....but what good is an open season to a guy who only catches 26" fish? I'm not advocating it, but what is the rational against it?

Numby:
my argument is the fish are that much older (8" = 4 years if memory serves) so that's 4 more spawns before they can be taken out of the spawning biomass... make it 36" rec and commercial....

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Numby:
my argument is the fish are that much older (8" = 4 years if memory serves) so that's 4 more spawns before they can be taken out of the spawning biomass... make it 36" rec and commercial....

I suspect it would help greatly by reducing the recreational catch, but probably less so with the commercial catch. Now if they created a commercial/recreational slot limit, say 34-42", then I could see it.

From my perspective, I feel the large female bass are too valuable as breeders, carriers of genetic traits for size, and important to the quality of the recreational fishery to be eaten. But surely that is because that works for me (I like letting them go more than eating them). If my family and I liked bass, probably I'd see it differently. If I needed to earn extra money from fishing I'd see it differently as well.