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Old 01-06-2010, 01:49 PM   #1
MakoMike
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Originally Posted by numbskull View Post
Sort of like the civil war all over again. "The problem isn't slavery, the problem is the people who don't like slavery. Damn abolitionists are the enemy." Take a look at how that reasoning worked out and I think you can see where we are headed.

The problem isn't the Pew Trust. The problem is that they are right, we have abused our fisheries. Making them into boogie men isn't going to change that even if we want to pretend it will.
If you really think the civil was fought over slavery its no wonder you think Pew and its allies are only trying to protect the fish. Again I ask, show me one stock that fishing has driven into deep trouble. Also, why your at it, explain to me why we are facing increasing restrictions on species that are at an all time high?

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Old 01-06-2010, 03:37 PM   #2
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[QUOTE=MakoMike;737083]I Again I ask, show me one stock that fishing has driven into deep trouble. QUOTE]

Weakfish
Inshore Cod
Halibut
Striped Bass once and heading there again
Scup
Fluke
Inshore Pollock
Whiting
Swordfish
White Marlin
Bluefin Tuna
Yellowfin Tuna (NE population)
Big Eye Tuna
Winter Flounder
River Herring
Wolffish
Tautog heading there fast S of NE.

You can quibble on a few, but none of those populations are anywhere near where they were 35-40 years ago....except Halibut which got wiped out 80 years ago. But who cares, cause who would be willing to pay you to take them off the Race in March to catch 200 lb fish?
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Old 01-07-2010, 04:11 PM   #3
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[QUOTE=numbskull;737096]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoMike View Post
I Again I ask, show me one stock that fishing has driven into deep trouble. QUOTE]

Weakfish
Inshore Cod
Halibut
Striped Bass once and heading there again
Scup
Fluke
Inshore Pollock
Whiting
Swordfish
White Marlin
Bluefin Tuna
Yellowfin Tuna (NE population)
Big Eye Tuna
Winter Flounder
River Herring
Wolffish
Tautog heading there fast S of NE.

You can quibble on a few, but none of those populations are anywhere near where they were 35-40 years ago....except Halibut which got wiped out 80 years ago. But who cares, cause who would be willing to pay you to take them off the Race in March to catch 200 lb fish?
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over this. But you obviously haven't done any research in compiling the above list as you are wrong for more than half of it. According to the scientists that do the match, the fluke population is at a historic high, never been more fluke around than there are today. So how come we have these ridiculous fluke regs of 4 fish at 20" inches or similar?

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Old 01-07-2010, 04:14 PM   #4
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[QUOTE=MakoMike;737294][QUOTE=numbskull;737096]

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over this. But you obviously haven't done any research in compiling the above list as you are wrong for more than half of it. QUOTE]

So you agree then that the other 1/2 of the list is overfished?
Point made, I think.
You planning any Halibut trips this year, or that income wouldn't be helpful?
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Old 01-07-2010, 05:34 PM   #5
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i think ALL fishermen are to blame in the decline of the fisheries that i've been involved in. i've been fishing for 50 yrs and must say that the striper, bluefish, blackfish and winter flounder fisheries are not what they once were, period. just going by the eyeball test....

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Old 01-08-2010, 06:22 AM   #6
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can't blame just the fishermen....

In round numbers, the various marine mammal species in the northwest Atlantic consume 20,000,000 metric tons of food each year. And at an average 3% annual increase, a fairly conservative estimate, each year the amount of food they consume could increase by more than half a million metric tons.

The total commercial landings for all species (finfish and shellfish) from the U.S. East Coast and Atlantic Canada are 680,000 and 870,000 thousand metric tons respectively. (Canadian Division of Fisheries and Oceans - http://www.qc.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/peches/e...ts/dfo_adm.pdf and National Marine Fisheries Service NMFS Commercial Fishery Landings Data ).



In perspective, in the Northwest Atlantic in 2006, marine mammals ate approximately 13 times as much fish and shellfish as commercial fishermen landed, and the annual increase in their total consumption might well have exceeded the U.S. East Coast landings in 2007.



And what are they eating? In large part, it’s what the fishermen are catching. If a fisherman wants to catch it, there’s an excellent chance that a whale or a dolphin or a seal is going to want to catch it as well. And if a commercial fisherman doesn’t want to catch it, then the probability is that something that he or she wants to catch is going to be eating it.



Consider the most numerous species, harp seals. If cod make up only five percent of their diet (it is reported as “a small percentage”), they consume on the order of 500,000 metric tons of this valuable species every year. At the fishery’s peak, cod landings for the north coast of Newfoundland, which is in the middle of the harp seals’ range, didn’t quite reach 800,000 tons. Capelin, one of the harp seals’ preferred foods, is also a preferred food of cod. This single species could be eating as much cod as Newfoundland’s commercial fishermen were once catching, and are undoubtedly eating far more of the cod’s preferred food, the cod have been declining as the harp seal population has been increasing, and yet overfishing is considered to be the reason for the decline.



In view of the massive levels of marine mammal predation, and remembering that much of it is either on the species that fishermen target or the food of those species, from any rational perspective it seems incredible that our fisheries management systems and our fisheries managers are still exclusively focused on fishing. And we haven’t yet considered the other factors, human-induced and natural, that will be the subject of subsequent Fishnets. But that’s what we’ve done and that’s what we’re doing, and because of the slavish devotion to that view, the concept of Ecosystem Based Management has been distorted into just another iteration of the failed “blame it all on fishing” philosophy.

Getting real about ecosystem based management

the seal population hasn't increased at all on the Cape...has it?
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:44 AM   #7
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Absolutely increasing predation (which ASMFC seems to ignore) is an issue. I suspect the poundage numbers are skewed, whales eat a lot of krill and small forage (sand eels/anchovies/etc ) likely constitute most of it.
On the other hand, every available historical record indicates finfish populations (and presumably predator populations as well) where many times more abundant when man (us non-native guys) arrived here than they are now. That makes it pretty hard to sell the argument that fishing is not a major cause of where we are today.

It doesn't matter, however.

People do not like to feel uncomfortable.
Most people do not fish.
Fishing causes some degree of "environmental damage".....meaning depletion of fish.
Damaging the environment makes most people uncomfortable.
Most people are unwilling to be made uncomfortable so we can fish.
Enter Pew trust and fishing restriction legislation stage left.

If we want to continue to be able to fish, we need to minimize (not fight for) our impact on the fish (read environment). We are on VERY thin ice if we don't, and there are far too many of us on that ice for it to hold.

Freshwater fisherman long ago had to adapt their behavior to preserve their resource and "right to fish". Saltwater fishing is 50 years behind, but we are going to have to do the same or be shut down. Fight it and we'll end up like the recreational/commercial migratory bird hunting industry of yesteryear. Wake up and go with the flow and we can end up like the freshwater fisheries of today.

Neither is what we want. One is better than the other.

Last edited by numbskull; 01-08-2010 at 08:00 AM..
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