MSBA Action Alert--Stripers Forever Bill Could Pass- Only One Hearing--This Thursday

[BigFish]

I was commenting on the fact that you also did not have a PHD....I most certainly read what you write. Man, your tone is just so harsh that I think you are in fact incapable of a mature discussion. I most certainly have respected your opinion without belittling you. You carry on though and happy fishing!

[Swimmer]

Hey Patrick, how many college degrees do you have?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by big jay

It made it worse.

Maine's mortality numbers went up exponentially, and their fishing went into the toilet.

So now to solve their problem, they want to extend their failed system to Mass -- Great Plan.

Striped Bass are a highly migratory fish that go where the bait is. Maine is on the relative edge of their Northern range. If they didn't migrate from halfway down the coast to Maine and back every year, I'd agree with you, but I can't see how a slot in Maine is the sole reason their fishery has sucked as of late. Maybe Massachusetts having 2 @ 28" is why Maine's fishery sucks now. Fewer fish making it past the gauntlet.

I'd really like to see some actual evidence anywhere that goes one way or the other for/against the slot - not "I called a guy I know" or "their fishing sucks. they have a slot. so the slot must be why the fishing sucks."

[Raider Ronnie]

Anyone know if these people @ Stripers Forever look to get the R.I season closed down also ?

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Striped Bass are a highly migratory fish that go where the bait is. Maine is on the relative edge of their Northern range. If they didn't migrate from halfway down the coast to Maine and back every year, I'd agree with you, but I can't see how a slot in Maine is the sole reason their fishery has sucked as of late. Maybe Massachusetts having 2 @ 28" is why Maine's fishery sucks now. Fewer fish making it past the gauntlet.

I'd really like to see some actual evidence anywhere that goes one way or the other for/against the slot - not "I called a guy I know" or "their fishing sucks. they have a slot. so the slot must be why the fishing sucks."

I agree with this especially when you realize that in much of Virginia and Maryland (the bay and river areas) the size limit is 18"-28". In these areas there is a huge number of fisherman and and they have no idea or belief in catch and release. I would bet they kill more fish in a weekend than Maine killed in it's best year.

I would ask that if a fishery is at a point where you limit the general public to only 2 fish a day, why is it acceptable to have a commercial fishery. Not saying I want to see the limits increased.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

I would ask that if a fishery is at a point where you limit the general public to only 2 fish a day, why is it acceptable to have a commercial fishery. Not saying I want to see the limits increased.

I would guess that it is because there are exponentially more recs than comms and it *should* be relatively easy to track and limit the take by the comms.

Recs are pretty much unregulated in how much they can take outside of the daily bag limits and the season is open year round (even though the fish aren't really here year round).

[jmac]

Anyone know if these people @ Stripers Forever look to get the R.I season closed down also ?

I think its just a matter of time before they spread their agenda up and down the Coast.....

[dannyplug1]

I dont want to put lighter fluid on a wild fire but, the problems in Maine (the lack of fish) are not caused by the slot limit. I just finished #^&#^&#^&#^& Russels Striper Wars and the problem is that the fish that migrate to Maine are for the most part Chesapeake fish. The problem is that the chesapeake is in bad shape. Look at the young of the year indexes look at the destruction of the menhaden population that filters the waters of the bay and provides food for the bass. Huge portions of the bay are dead zones. The problems with the bass in maine are not related to the slot limits. The real problems with the bass are not so simple to put a finger on. That being stated I still am in favor of making bass a non commercial species. I hope they win at the state house.

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Anyone know if these people @ Stripers Forever look to get the R.I season closed down also ?

This is the point often missed. Many people are looking at this as just a Mass issue. SF is trying to get two or three of the states that allow commercial fishing to stop. If they got three states to stop then the ASMFC would have a much stronger recreational lean. Hoping that in the end this would lead to a more conservative approach by the board. SF is concentrating there efforts in the Northeast because they know the people up here are more open and concerned about protecting the fish, as compared to Virginia.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by dannyplug1

I dont want to put lighter fluid on a wild fire but, the problems in Maine (the lack of fish) are not caused by the slot limit. I just finished #^&#^&#^&#^& Russels Striper Wars and the problem is that the fish that migrate to Maine are for the most part Chesapeake fish. The problem is that the chesapeake is in bad shape. Look at the young of the year indexes look at the destruction of the menhaden population that filters the waters of the bay and provides food for the bass. Huge portions of the bay are dead zones. The problems with the bass in maine are not related to the slot limits. The real problems with the bass are not so simple to put a finger on. That being stated I still am in favor of making bass a non commercial species. I hope they win at the state house.

This has been my exact point all along. People are quick to say that Maine's fishing sucks because they have a slot, but there appears to be little evidence to back either position - maybe it has, maybe it hasn't but there is no way to tell.

Correlation does not prove causation.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

This is the point often missed. Many people are looking at this as just a Mass issue. SF is trying to get two or three of the states that allow commercial fishing to stop. If they got three states to stop then the ASMFC would have a much stronger recreational lean. Hoping that in the end this would lead to a more conservative approach by the board. SF is concentrating there efforts in the Northeast because they know the people up here are more open and concerned about protecting the fish, as compared to Virginia.

Good. I hope this helps push an eventual coast-wide gamefish status for the Striped Bass. As Makai stated, some studies are showing that women and children shouldn't eat it anyway.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

Check out this pretty much sums it up

Telegram.com - A product of the Worcester Telegram & Gazette

Sums up the opponent's side of the argument. Otherwise, nothing he states is really supported.

I agree with his statements about pollution in the Chesapeake and with regards to protecting the bait. Otherwise, his only arguments against the bill is that commercial fisherman won't make money on the fish and the commercial quota will be redistributed to the recreational fisherman, which doesn't make any sense since the recreational take is so poorly tracked.

Gamefish status is the way to go.

[JohnR]

Hopefully some of you are going to this today, I can't make it due to work.

As shattered as opinions are in this thread and in the angling community, we're screwed in the long run because we will be divided into pieces and consumed in those pieces.

[CowHunter]

Some People just dont get it.... If an extremist FlyFishing group like stripers Forever could band together and totally close the commercial fishery down in Mass because the fishing sucks in maine is really unbelievable... I would love to see some PETA Seal loving group band 3 bus loads together and shut downthe entire Cape Beaches from Race Point to Chatham just so the Seals can be unbothered and Happy. What the hell is the difference? The closings of entire areas can be next, just because its done offshore doesnt mean it wont get done on the surf. Hell they are trying to do it down certain beaches here in NJ due to the "Animal-Like" behevior of certain people fishing the beaches, the trash, fish racks, etc... I love how NJ is a "Green" Gamefish state according to StripersForever but they kill more fish than probably a combination of states with the regular rec catch and the 360,000 lb bonus AKA BS Commercial Quota...
There have been seasonal weather and bait pattern changes that I am sure affected Maine..... Maine is on the upper end of the northern migrational Patterns as is North Carolina to the south. Look at North Carolina this year, somehow I dont think they will get much or any of the Commercial Quota filled because the ocean temp is the coldest its been in year 41, and the bait and the fish have move well outside of three miles and will probably stay there along with the many other bodies. Its probably been a decade since surfcasters had a good shot at them down there. Hell I remember running down there in the late 90's and chasing those fish down the beach from Duck, Kitty Hawk to hatteras... The Bait was inshore so is the fish. I remember walking down to the mouth of the saco river years back, surfcasting at night... My wife caught her first Maine Striper there. The amount of bait at the river mouth was unbelievable. Alot of the bait has moved offshore so have the bass, just a fact, look at Stelwagon, gulf of maine. Why come inshore and scrap for crusteceans??? That cant sustain those big bodies of fish, thats why they show with the Herring runs, Mullet runs, Bunker runs, Mackeral and squid....
Here off NJ Ive been fishing 2-3 miles offshore with my charters, mostly by myself... Hell I even filmed a tv show there this past June which I put up on my FB page. It will air sometime this month... Gotta see the bites I get there, by myself....Where is land? Where are the boats?
Some people hate the thought of commercial fisherman. They are on the Extremist Side that feels Striped Bass should be a gamefish, no one should be allowed to kill one, (Unless of course they want a 20" slot), and the fish should be there to provide catch and release pleasure like a child going to the park.....
On the other end of the spectrum we have the Diehard Commercial Guy....Kill everything by any means necassary until there is nothing left and make lots of $$$ on it! Mindless barbarians that think Fish are an unlimited resource....
I would hope that we all on this board were a median having respect for both commercial and rec, because we both do need to coexist and work together to preserve a fishery that we mutually want to be healthy for us, our kids, grand kids and so on.
I whole Heartedly agree with what John R Said, We are screwed in the Long run because we will be divided in pieces and consumed in those pieces....

[maddmatt]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Some People just dont get it.... If an extremist FlyFishing group like stripers Forever could band together and totally close the commercial fishery down in Mass because the fishing sucks in maine is really unbelievable... I would love to see some PETA Seal loving group band 3 bus loads together and shut downthe entire Cape Beaches from Race Point to Chatham just so the Seals can be unbothered and Happy. What the hell is the difference? The closings of entire areas can be next, just because its done offshore doesnt mean it wont get done on the surf. Hell they are trying to do it down certain beaches here in NJ due to the "Animal-Like" behevior of certain people fishing the beaches, the trash, fish racks, etc... I love how NJ is a "Green" Gamefish state according to StripersForever but they kill more fish than probably a combination of states with the regular rec catch and the 360,000 lb bonus AKA BS Commercial Quota...
There have been seasonal weather and bait pattern changes that I am sure affected Maine..... Maine is on the upper end of the northern migrational Patterns as is North Carolina to the south. Look at North Carolina this year, somehow I dont think they will get much or any of the Commercial Quota filled because the ocean temp is the coldest its been in year 41, and the bait and the fish have move well outside of three miles and will probably stay there along with the many other bodies. Its probably been a decade since surfcasters had a good shot at them down there. Hell I remember running down there in the late 90's and chasing those fish down the beach from Duck, Kitty Hawk to hatteras... The Bait was inshore so is the fish. I remember walking down to the mouth of the saco river years back, surfcasting at night... My wife caught her first Maine Striper there. The amount of bait at the river mouth was unbelievable. Alot of the bait has moved offshore so have the bass, just a fact, look at Stelwagon, gulf of maine. Why come inshore and scrap for crusteceans??? That cant sustain those big bodies of fish, thats why they show with the Herring runs, Mullet runs, Bunker runs, Mackeral and squid....
Here off NJ Ive been fishing 2-3 miles offshore with my charters, mostly by myself... Hell I even filmed a tv show there this past June which I put up on my FB page. It will air sometime this month... Gotta see the bites I get there, by myself....Where is land? Where are the boats?
Some people hate the thought of commercial fisherman. They are on the Extremist Side that feels Striped Bass should be a gamefish, no one should be allowed to kill one, (Unless of course they want a 20" slot), and the fish should be there to provide catch and release pleasure like a child going to the park.....
On the other end of the spectrum we have the Diehard Commercial Guy....Kill everything by any means necassary until there is nothing left and make lots of $$$ on it! Mindless barbarians that think Fish are an unlimited resource....
I would hope that we all on this board were a median having respect for both commercial and rec, because we both do need to coexist and work together to preserve a fishery that we mutually want to be healthy for us, our kids, grand kids and so on.
I whole Heartedly agree with what John R Said, We are screwed in the Long run because we will be divided in pieces and consumed in those pieces....

hear, hear....

[Nebe]

I've already stated my thoughts on this subject, but mark my words on what I am about to say.... If this bill passes it will pass because massachussetts wants to insure that they are doing their part to protect a valuable resource- income from saltwater fishing liscense. The low fee thus year will go up... Watch. But the rub is that they and other states who realize they can capitalize off of this have to make sure there I a reason to buy one...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[CowHunter]

Saltwater license is coming anyway... Lets see who has saltwater licenses NC, VA, MD, DE, CT, NY.... Who is left NJ, RI, MA??? You know that wont last...CT went up 300% since 09 for Non Res..Charter licenses went up from $200-$400 in both NY and CT.

I hear some welfare organization is banding together and heading up from NY to Mass to push a bill for a saltwater license, if recreational anglers can go out and have "Fun" catching striped bass they should pay for it and give the money to the less fortunate! ;-))

[Back Beach]

I don't see this bill passing in its current form. SF is asking for too much too quick. It may pass over time in smaller chunks, beginning with a one fish per day limit, then size change, then commercial ban. I say its a no go and more of a publicity stunt to garner attention and support for the next assault.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Some People just dont get it.... If an extremist FlyFishing group like stripers Forever could band together and totally close the commercial fishery down in Mass because the fishing sucks in maine is really unbelievable......

I wouldn't call them extremist, but they certainly have a self serving agenda. I have to believe the legislature is going to take the same view and tell them to stuff it.

[numbskull]

I get it. And Pew gets it, too. When fishermen fail to reign in their overuse of the resource they only further demonstrate their inability to be objective stewards of the environment we (the entire public) share. That greatly strengthens Pew's position.

Being "right" and having a lot of money and a unified focus means Pew is soon going to be calling the shots. That will mean MPSs. The places that make the most sense for Marine Protected Sanctuaries are Stellwagen (already a protected area of sorts), the outer Cape (off the National seashore), and Nomans...(already a wildlife reserve). Of course there will also be shore areas that become off limits.

This bill will fail, and all of us will eventually suffer for it. If you like to fish for striped bass.....not make a living from them (as valid a use as that is).....gamefish status and greatly reduced recreational take was your best hope.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by numbskull

This bill will fail, and all of us will eventually suffer for it. If you like to fish for striped bass.....not make a living from them (as valid a use as that is).....gamefish status and greatly reduced recreational take was your best hope.

I could not agree more.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I could not agree more.

Yes, let's make it a Gamefish, just like it is in NJ right??
Stripersforever wants to make it a gamefish but let's recreational guys keep a slot fish... Selfish, no??? Hypocrits???

From what I hear the meeting is still going, over 3 hours.... Heard it's pretty good... Guess StripersForever weren't welcome in open arms....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[CowHunter]

Can you believe how much support Stripersforever recieved??? .5 percent, yup...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[trapperpierre]

Solution.......Ban all recreational and commercial fishing on eastern seaboard...designate all coastal waters(including bays and rivers and shorelines) MPAs...........bring down the Newfoundlanders/Labradorians for the sealing project....focus on developing aquaculture/rearing great whites for release.......and now with all our spare time........meet at The Colony Tap in P-town(during the safer off season-less tourists)...I'm buying(non drinkers soft drinks) and all of us can reminisce about the good old days of angling..................before all this confusion leads us down the road to the loss of our respective life styles.................................. ......

[MAKAI]

Wish they would hold these sessions at night.
So the full time working stiffs could attend.

[BigFish]

Most of us have to work to save money for our fishing permits!!!

[CowHunter]

Not the rich retired yuppies representing stripers forever... Their intentions may be in the right place. But they are ignorant on placing the blame in the wrong place... Coms took 10 percent of the catch...

[MAKAI]

Most of my charter capt friends this time of year are sleeping to 11 and getting fatter.
Piss me off with jealosy.

[CowHunter]

It sucks to work 7 days a week without a day oFf for 6 months in a row...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[MAKAI]

You don"t have to tell me, I've carried a 50 to 55 hr full time construction job with a weekend bartending gig for almost 30 yrs and it still aint enough. Next wife is gonna be rich though.

There is something to be said for working on the water. When I mate for my buddies charter or when I comm bassed, tired as I was I didn't feel it was work, like the trenches I dig, all the barroom brawls I've been in. I enjoyed being on the water too much.
I need a do over.