Tea Party/ GOP-

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

I don't think they'll be harmless, but they will definitely fracture an already weak GOP.

-spence

Joe and Spence, what planet are you from? Where you asleep for the last few months? Do you listen to any media outside of network news? Are you paying attention to the dems dropping like flies? A republican replacing Ted Kennedy? Spence, the GOP is weak??? You only had valuable input when you were quoting Tom Friedman, juts another one of teh Monday morning quarterbacks criticizing Bush. We'll there are no books now as history is being made daily, you are out of touch. Look around! A democrtatic held sentate and house CANNOT pass any legislation that was Obama's main priority??? Talk about WEAK!

The majority of Americans are conservative, not wing nuts. America woke up post Bush-sucks to find out that Change means - tax and spend. They want the government out of their lives, they want the government to stop spending, they want a president to stop "selling" and start doing! They dont like to be talked down to! Wake up boys - the times they are a changing. Latest CNN poll - majority of Americans WOULD NOT VOTE TO RELECT OBAMA !

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Joe and Spence, what planet are you from? Where you asleep for the last few months? Do you listen to any media outside of network news? Are you paying attention to the dems dropping like flies?

Scott Brown was a big win, and while a big deal, I don't think it is the massive landslide some see it as.
But...
how many republicans are retiring or not running for reelection so far in 2010...
I thought I read somewhere it was about 50/50 on the split.

A gauntlet was thrown with the energy legislation Obama is proposing. If the republicans fight what they pushed for just on political prinicipal (Drill baby drill!) then they are are definitely going to look like the party of no. If they do this, then they are going to loose any momentum the party might have gained from Scott Brown...

for the record, I as a tree-hugging, climate change believing sediment worker, am:
1. Pro Nuke
2. anti offshore drilling
3. Undecided on 'clean' coal...

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Are you paying attention to the dems dropping like flies?

This has been mentioned by you a few times in the past couple weeks. You're right that the dems are dropping like flies. However, there are more Republicans at the moment that have declared they will not be running for re-election than there are Dems. Incumbent anger is being felt by both parties.

Also, you (and just about everyone else) have pretty consistently made the Scott Brown vote a "Vote against the Democrats" and I disagree. I think the Scott Brown win included a perfect storm of factors - a weak Dem candidate, a horribly run campaign, Brown's lack of fitting the Washington mold and having that hometown appearance. (and yes, dissent of the Dems but not as the sole reason).

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Also, you (and just about everyone else) have pretty consistently made the Scott Brown vote a "Vote against the Democrats" and I disagree. I think the Scott Brown win included a perfect storm of factors - a weak Dem candidate, a horribly run campaign, Brown's lack of fitting the Washington mold and having that hometown appearance. (and yes, dissent of the Dems but not as the sole reason).

Johnny - Brown's main FOCUS -

1. I can kill healthcare bill (you remember, Obama's key priority)
2. I am against giving rights to terrorsts (you remember, Obama pushed for trials of 9/11 suspects)
3. Less government (you remember, everything Obama has done in offce)

So in a state that was predominatly for OBAMA, the Brown vote was not a vote against Dems, although he stood opposite EVERYTHING they stood for?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Johnny - Brown's main FOCUS -

1. I can kill healthcare bill (you remember, Obama's key priority)
2. I am against giving rights to terrorsts (you remember, Obama pushed for trials of 9/11 suspects)
3. Less government (you remember, everything Obama has done in offce)

So in a state that was predominatly for OBAMA, the Brown vote was not a vote against Dems, although he stood opposite EVERYTHING they stood for?

Thus the problem with your argument. You assume that everyone votes based on policy and the issues. If the Presidential campaign taught us anything, it's that many people vote on sensationalism and voting against what's currently happening in the state.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Johnny - Brown's main FOCUS -

1. I can kill healthcare bill (you remember, Obama's key priority)
2. I am against giving rights to terrorsts (you remember, Obama pushed for trials of 9/11 suspects)
3. Less government (you remember, everything Obama has done in offce)

So in a state that was predominatly for OBAMA, the Brown vote was not a vote against Dems, although he stood opposite EVERYTHING they stood for?

People voted for Brown out of anti-establishment resentment more than anything else. Coakley had a huge lead in the polls until the voters got the impression she felt entitled to the seat.

Brown simply exploited this opening and she couldn't respond.

Or do you think the Mass voters just changed their opinions on all the issues overnight?

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

People voted for Brown out of anti-establishment resentment more than anything else. Coakley had a huge lead in the polls until the voters got the impression she felt entitled to the seat.

Brown simply exploited this opening and she couldn't respond.

Or do you think the Mass voters just changed their opinions on all the issues overnight?

-spence

You don't have any idea what the hell you are talking about. The Ma. voters sent a clear message. You are in denial.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by buckman

You don't have any idea what the hell you are talking about. The Ma. voters sent a clear message. You are in denial.

seriously, there have been many disagreements out here but these guys are avoiding the blatant facts.....

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

You don't have any idea what the hell you are talking about. The Ma. voters sent a clear message. You are in denial.

You guys seem to be the ones in denial, or you're just not reading my posts.

I've never said that Brown's victory wasn't a message, in fact I've repeatedly stated that his victory was an anti-government message...but not one that's rooted too deeply in conservative vs liberal ideologies.

It's not like 10+ % of voters changed what they believed in during the last few weeks of the election. Brown ran a great campaign and Coakley made several mistakes...

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

You guys seem to be the ones in denial, or you're just not reading my posts.

I've never said that Brown's victory wasn't a message, in fact I've repeatedly stated that his victory was an anti-government message...but not one that's rooted too deeply in conservative vs liberal ideologies.

It's not like 10+ % of voters changed what they believed in during the last few weeks of the election. Brown ran a great campaign and Coakley made several mistakes...

-spence

here are the stats - you draw you own conclusion, seems obvious to me

A Final Look at Massachusetts Election Night Poll - Rasmussen Reports

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

People voted for Brown out of anti-establishment resentment more than anything else. Coakley had a huge lead in the polls until the voters got the impression she felt entitled to the seat.

Brown simply exploited this opening and she couldn't respond.

Or do you think the Mass voters just changed their opinions on all the issues overnight?

-spence

Did you read any of the newspaper or internet articles after the Brown win? Did you listen to Obama's own advisors and Democratic leaders after the MA election? Seriously, Spence you think it was because people got the impression that she felt she was entitled to the seat? She probably did feel that way, but the voters that were interviewed after the election voted for Brown because they are sick of the spending and having health care shoved down their throats, among other things. That is a fact. No matter how you try to spin it, it wasn't due to Coakley feeling entitled. It was due to voters wanting real change, not the crap Obama promised.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Joe and Spence, what planet are you from? Where you asleep for the last few months? Do you listen to any media outside of network news? Are you paying attention to the dems dropping like flies? A republican replacing Ted Kennedy? Spence, the GOP is weak??? You only had valuable input when you were quoting Tom Friedman, juts another one of teh Monday morning quarterbacks criticizing Bush. We'll there are no books now as history is being made daily, you are out of touch. Look around! A democrtatic held sentate and house CANNOT pass any legislation that was Obama's main priority??? Talk about WEAK!

The astute observer would recognize that both the Democrats and Republicans are under fire from angry voters who don't feel the government is working effectively.

Look at John McCain, he's in the fight of his life (with a freaking pundit) of all people, and he was the presidential nominee just 15 months ago!

As for the passing of legislation, the Congress has passed more legislation than any in decades, including a 700 billion dollar spending bill for the Stimulus. Obama made mistakes on health care and now he's paying the price...

The majority of Americans are conservative, not wing nuts. America woke up post Bush-sucks to find out that Change means - tax and spend. They want the government out of their lives, they want the government to stop spending, they want a president to stop "selling" and start doing! They dont like to be talked down to! Wake up boys - the times they are a changing. Latest CNN poll - majority of Americans WOULD NOT VOTE TO RELECT OBAMA !

I don't think any poll that projects 3 years into the future is really worth much. If the economy has dramatically improved Obama's chances for reelection are pretty good.

-spence