Complaint thread

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Peterjay

Considering the fact that the commercial fishing industry has annihilated every species it's targeted, I don't know why anyone would be expected to be sympathetic to its current plight. And I'm tired of hearing about "harvests." You harvest what you plant. We're talking about exploitation, not farming. Seems to me that when the commercial fishing crowd can come up with a believable explanation as to what's happened to the once healthy populations of cod, pollock, whiting, bluefin tuna, swordfish, river herring, menhaden, winter flounder, summer flounder, mackerel, etc., then perhaps they'll find a few more sympathetic ears when they're arguing for an opportunity to finish the job on the striped bass population.

[MikeToole]

Throwing dead fish over the side has got to be the dumbest thing ever to come out of fishery management. I think that if a boat goes over it's limit or there is by-catch the boat should be required to bring the fish in. The money from the sale of these fish will be turned over to either fund research or enforcement. The poundage will be deducted from the commercial catch quota for that state. Now you have given them a real reason to avoid by-catch and going over there limit.

[Tagger]

sorry ... can't read all those caps ..

[Islander77]

Woody well below the belt I agree... How bout I start insulting peoples homes???? And as far as waste and annaihalating stocks ok every guy that keeps shorts and over limits IN THE REC feild do just as much damage but hey what do i know.... You can keep blaming us the commercial guys that FOLLOW THE LAW all we can do...

AND SEA DANGLES ... Say what you want about regs because since they were implemented BI has been the place to skirt them. A little island of pirates and black market bonanzas where it is convenient to avoid authorities. ...If there were no regs you would be mowing lawns or driving a tour bus.

1) UMMM all fish landed there???? not in many many years try it gets landed in POINT JUDITH and 2 as far as that goes the only Black market guy you describe came from NY Montauck to be exact and pushed the big sell me your fish for cash back in the day... Avoid authorities yea like dem and audoboun society who are there frequently... Mowing lawns yea I do that too to help out my grandfather with his accounts from time to time... Oh wait as do some of my relatives still do... Dont start talking unless you know the facts man... I dont throw remarks about from where your from...

If you all cant see reality then sorry for you wait and see when the corparations take it over and there REALLY is no fish left...

AND yes I am one of many many fisherman that support the Ideals of if ti comes up it should be going against a quota and go to market... I really wish some of you all knew facts first hand then from what your being spoon fed... But good luck fishing when big business takes over and really truly does " rape the sea" for everything and leaves it for dead....

"Bycatch" by definition is the catching of a difeerent species or species of fish then what your target fish is....

"Waste" by reality is being told to dump good fish thats dead over once it come up on deck ,

We dont try for waste we end up with bycatch, if you cant understand that then thats sad

[JackK]

New regulations starting May 1st are going to seriously reduce the amount of groundfish discards while at sea. Boats won't be required to discard that bycatch, they'll be allowed to land it and that poundage is taken out of a total quota. It's part of the new NE shift to Sectors.

Now whether or not sectors will work in the NE ports is a completely different debate... no comment.

Islander, I understand you're pissed, and you have every right to be. But please realize that not all people at noaa/nmfs are "nerds". Some are in management, and make the rules/regs. Others strictly perform research and are devoted towards providing the best possible data for fisheries management. And there's entire divisions of noaa devoted towards working with fishermen to obtain quality data. Some of us are a little more united than you might think

[Islander77]

Originally Posted by JackK

New regulations starting May 1st are going to seriously reduce the amount of groundfish discards while at sea. Boats won't be required to discard that bycatch, they'll be allowed to land it and that poundage is taken out of a total quota. It's part of the new NE shift to Sectors.

Now whether or not sectors will work in the NE ports is a completely different debate... no comment.

Islander, I understand you're pissed, and you have every right to be. But please realize that not all people at noaa/nmfs are "nerds". Some are in management, and make the rules/regs. Others strictly perform research and are devoted towards providing the best possible data for fisheries management. And there's entire divisions of noaa devoted towards working with fishermen to obtain quality data. Some of us are a little more united than you might think

Jack you are correct not all are nerds... and if your that united tell them to get a real net please so their test instruments are real... And yes sector will change things dramatically WE HOPE if they can do better math that is lol.... the biggest draw back to sector so far seems to be leaning towards vessel size and not landing history to determine it from what I have been hearing but here is hoping to a brighter future...

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Islander77

the biggest draw back to sector so far seems to be leaning towards vessel size and not landing history to determine it from what I have been hearing but here is hoping to a brighter future...

sector based fishing quotas will based on catch history of the vessel not vessel size. Boats who have been sitting at port or have not been active for the past few years are going to get screwed. The guy who is really going to get screwed is the captain who wants to buy another boat with poor landings, even though he has been doing well on his current boat.

[JackK]

Originally Posted by Islander77

Jack you are correct not all are nerds... and if your that united tell them to get a real net please so their test instruments are real... And yes sector will change things dramatically WE HOPE if they can do better math that is lol.... the biggest draw back to sector so far seems to be leaning towards vessel size and not landing history to determine it from what I have been hearing but here is hoping to a brighter future...

Nets aren't a problem. If you've been out fishing for haddock on GB, you know it's common for ~10 boats to be fishing right in the same area, and one boat hits the 10,000lb school while the rest get nada. That's just the way it goes sometimes. There's so many different versions of that story (research vessel was towing with no doors, net was full of holes that weren't mended, etc etc) out there.

The movement now needs to go towards cooperative research- using commercial fishing vessels to obtain catch data (in addition to survey and observer data). That, along with the development of new trawls (or gillnets, or dredges, etc) that reduce bycatch are going to be the future of the northeast fisheries.

[Roger]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

Throwing dead fish over the side has got to be the dumbest thing ever to come out of fishery management. I think that if a boat goes over it's limit or there is by-catch the boat should be required to bring the fish in. The money from the sale of these fish will be turned over to either fund research or enforcement. The poundage will be deducted from the commercial catch quota for that state. Now you have given them a real reason to avoid by-catch and going over there limit.

Sounds good at first, but if you think about it, it's really a bad idea - much worse than throwing fish overboard.

If the comm can't make money on it, it's unfair to require him to spend money landing fish he can't profit from. I suspect it wouldn't happen.

If you compensate them, you will encourage them to increase by-catch, IOW fish in areas where they'll get lots of it.

Even if you could entice comms to bring this bycatch in without encouraging them to get more, that will penalize the comm that does a good job targeting specific fish and/or put the little guys out of business. Imagine what happens to the price and quota of striped bass when a couple herring trawlers bring in 20,000# of bass. Price plummets, quota is reached early and the hook and line guys are out of business.

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by Roger

Sounds good at first, but if you think about it, it's really a bad idea - much worse than throwing fish overboard.

If the comm can't make money on it, it's unfair to require him to spend money landing fish he can't profit from. I suspect it wouldn't happen.

If you compensate them, you will encourage them to increase by-catch, IOW fish in areas where they'll get lots of it.

Even if you could entice comms to bring this bycatch in without encouraging them to get more, that will penalize the comm that does a good job targeting specific fish and/or put the little guys out of business. Imagine what happens to the price and quota of striped bass when a couple herring trawlers bring in 20,000# of bass. Price plummets, quota is reached early and the hook and line guys are out of business.

So you think it's a good idea to throw 20,000 pounds of dead fish over the side. That holding up the price of fish is more important then wasting fish. That it is more important to keep the quota available for commercial fisherman then it is to waste 20,000 pounds of fish.

Why is it unfair to require them to bring in the fish. They're given the privilege to fish for a public resource. We need to give them more reasons to avoid areas where there is a higher risk of by-catch. Let peer pressure within the commercial fishery fight out the issue and come up with answers. If they're caught throw dead fish over board then fine them and take their permit away. Sure you won't catch them all but it's better than nothing.

Right now there is no reason why they shouldn't fish high risk methods and areas. Just throw them over board, all I want is the money.

I've read post saying they're just a fish the fines shouldn't be large or put them at risk of losing their job. I work in an industry where if I falsify data they will pull your license and you will not be able to work in the industry for 5-years. What this really means is you will never work in the industry again. Plus the regulator can press criminal charges. So I don't have much sympathy.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

I've read post saying they're just a fish the fines shouldn't be large or put them at risk of losing their job. I work in an industry where if I falsify data they will pull your license and you will not be able to work in the industry for 5-years. What this really means is you will never work in the industry again. Plus the regulator can press criminal charges. So I don't have much sympathy.

Worked 5 years as an EMT, onto Per Diem status now. Thought about becoming a medic as a career but the liability is far too high, risks too high and compensation too low. Had to deal with exactly what you talk about above - false or missing data on a run report (even if unintentional) at the very least could mean losing your certs, at the worst could mean losing your assets like your house and garnished wages from losing a negligence claim.

I agree with you. It's tough to sympathize for people complaining about getting fined and the possible outcomes of steep fines. Don't break the rules, and you won't have to worry too much. To reword an old corny phrase, "Don't do the crime, if you can't pay the fine."

Just in other businesses, the crooks ruin it for everyone else.

[Roger]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

So you think it's a good idea to throw 20,000 pounds of dead fish over the side.

No, I think we need a better answer than what you proposed. I don't buy your premise that your's is the only possible alternative.

[Doublerunner]

Originally Posted by Roger

No, I think we need a better answer than what you proposed. I don't buy your premise that your's is the only possible alternative.

Then what is your "better answer"?

Obviously you agree there is a problem. So what would your solution be?