girl solo sailor epibs went off this AM

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

Some people go to war, some people go to sea. Its as simple as that.

Btw, the Coast Guard will not render assistance unless its a life or death situation.

Agreed. But another simple concept is that parents are supposed to be wiser and more experienced than their teenage kids, and thus are in a better position to decide what's good for a kid and what's not. I'm sure you agree with that, we just disagree on the appropriateness of this particular adventure.

Thank God for the outcome...

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Agreed. But another simple concept is that parents are supposed to be wiser and more experienced than their teenage kids, and thus are in a better position to decide what's good for a kid and what's not. I'm sure you agree with that, we just disagree on the appropriateness of this particular adventure.

Thank God for the outcome...

Given the number of soldiers that have died the past few years in Iraq and Afghanistan, is it ignorant for parents to let their kids go into the military?

If the kid proved she could handle the boat then why would you deny her doing what she wanted?

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by likwid

Given the number of soldiers that have died the past few years in Iraq and Afghanistan, is it ignorant for parents to let their kids go into the military?

If the kid proved she could handle the boat then why would you deny her doing what she wanted?

Clueless. This saga has more in common with the "Balloon Boy" stunt than with a child deciding to serve his/her country. The country also recognizes that a 16 yo is not mature enough to make those sort of judgements.

Judgement, not boat handling, is what kids need to learn to survive. Tackling the S Indian Ocean alone in winter at age 16 is not good judgement. Gambling the life of your 16 yo to affirm your/their opinion that they are special isn't good judgement, either.

How'd a kid that age afford this boat anyways? Her parents buy it for her?

[likwid]

Originally Posted by numbskull

The country also recognizes that a 16 yo is not mature enough to make those sort of judgements.

Its sad when its this easy to make blanket judgements on people without having met them.

I'm glad I never had anyone in my life like you telling me "you can't do that, thats too risky, thats too dangerous, you're not mature enough".

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Seriously? I deny my kids something they want, all the time. I don't let my 10 year old eat candy bars for dinner, I don't let him choose not to do his homework. I don't let my teenager buy a convertible with her college savings. You see, there's a reason why kids need parents.

So how much time did you spend with Abby offshore in the Open 40 determining she's not capable of this then?

[Jim in CT]

Likwid...

"I'm glad I never had anyone in my life like you telling me "you can't do that, thats too risky,"

Did you have parents? Do you have kids (God I hope not)?

"So how much time did you spend with Abby offshore in the Open 40 determining she's not capable of this then?"

I spent exactly zero time with her. But I know that there's great reasons why 16 year-olds can't even drive a car in many states without adult supervision. I know that 16 year-olds aren't allowed to drink or even vote. Because they aren't developed enough, aren't mature enough, to make those kinds of decisions.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Did you have parents?

I was raised by an angry group of bowmen known as the bowmen's union. By the time I was 5 I was being chased by pro ho's. At 6 I scaled by hand my first 100+ foot rig in the middle of a gale to retrieve a halyard. By 12 they unveiled the ancient scripts from NYYC saying the one with the monkey feet would be the herald of the bowmen, which was me.

Ask Nebe, he'll vouch.

I was raised by extremely accomplished offshore sailors. My mother has more miles than most Navy folks will ever have.

Do you have kids (God I hope not)?

They would certainly get in the way of fishin and sailin.

I spent exactly zero time with her. But I know that there's great reasons why 16 year-olds can't even drive a car in many states without adult supervision. I know that 16 year-olds aren't allowed to drink or even vote. Because they aren't developed enough, aren't mature enough, to make those kinds of decisions.

So tell me what voting, drinking, or driving a car has to do with sailing solo? Other than absolutely NOTHING.

I'm sure you're a great dad and your kids love you, but don't ever tell anyone else what they can or can't do or what their kids can or can't do. They just might do it anyhow and make you look bad.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

OK, so you're saying parents are never justified in saying "no" to teenagers because what they want is too risky...that's what you're seriously saying?

Lets put this bluntly.
You have exactly zero knowledge of what it takes to sail offshore solo.
You have exactly zero knowledge of this kid's background.

You have no right to judge her or the parents.

[Jim in CT]

Likwid...

"So tell me what voting, drinking, or driving a car has to do with sailing solo? Other than absolutely NOTHING."

Wrong. Those things (to do them safely and knowledgably) all require experience, maturity, wisdom, and the ability to understand the consequences of decisions.

"You have exactly zero knowledge of what it takes to sail offshore solo."

In terms of technical ability and seamenship, you are 100% correct in your assessment.

"You have exactly zero knowledge of this kid's background."

I assume (don't know for sure) she has spent an awful lot of time on the water. And I know for damn sure her parents are morons.

"You have no right to judge her or the parents"

Sorry, in your first post you called me "ignorant" and "stupid". So naturally I assumed that you were comfortable in judging others. I guessed I missed the announcement that you, and only you, were qualified to judge others.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

I'm glad I never had anyone in my life like you telling me "you can't do that, thats too risky, thats too dangerous, you're not mature enough".

OK, so you're saying parents are never justified in saying "no" to teenagers because what they want is too risky...that's what you're seriously saying?

What color is the sky on the planet you live on? Here on Earth, where I live, parents are supposed to watch kids, especially teenagers, like a hawk. Teenagers have very little appreciation for long-term consequences.

According to your logic, the next time my 10 year-old asks if he can drive the car, I shuold just hand over the keys. And he can decide whether or not to wear his seat belt, things like that?

[numbskull]

likwid, have you raised any teenaged children?
Until you do, you know nothing.
This is not about offshore sailing. This is about parental judgement....something you have no direct experience with it appears.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by numbskull

This is not about offshore sailing.

Yes actually it is.
Since you have zero knowledge of it in GENERAL, never mind sailing an Open 40, you have no concept to decide whether a 16 year old could or couldn't do it.

And parent's judgement? Its their kid. Its their decision to say go or no go. Not yours. And none of your business.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

Yes actually it is.

And parent's judgement? Its their kid. Its their decision to say go or no go. Not yours. And none of your business.

Here's what you can't understand. If this kid had died, I would feel awful about that, and I'd feel angry at the waste. I've seen too many teenagers die for noble causes, to comprehend why parents would allow such risks for something as meaningless as 15 minutes of fame (and she had a blog and website, so don't tell me that's not what motivated her in some fashion, which, by the way, is understandable for a kid).

In some way, all of us, even you, have a vested interest in the safety and quality of life of future generations.

And don't give me that "who are you to judge" crap, that's the last-ditch effort of someone who would never admit that someone else might have a point.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by numbskull

.

Judgement, not boat handling, is what kids need to learn to survive. Tackling the S Indian Ocean alone in winter at age 16 is not good judgement. Gambling the life of your 16 yo to affirm your/their opinion that they are special isn't good judgement, either.

Exactly. In a written test of seamenship, maybe this kid scores better than, say, Dennis Connor (the only sailor I know). Does that mean she's better equipped to decide for herself to sail around the world, solo, than he is?

Nope. Maturity and wisdom are a function of age and experience.

I can easily see why this kid wanted to do it. I cannot comprehend any parent even considering agreeing to it. But as I said before, I see 12 year-olds shipped off to boarding schools, which I wouldn't do to my little guy, no matter how smart he was, even if you put a gun to my head.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

If the kid proved she could handle the boat then why would you deny her doing what she wanted?

Seriously? I deny my kids something they want, all the time. I don't let my 10 year old eat candy bars for dinner, I don't let him choose not to do his homework. I don't let my teenager buy a convertible with her college savings. You see, there's a reason why kids need parents.

As to your other point, you speculated that if more soldiers die in combat than kids drown who sail solo, military life is more dangerous? You can't compare it that way, because I assume many more folks are in the military.

In other words, more people will get killed today driving cars than by playing russian roulette. Does that mean driving is more dangerous? No, it means that there are a lot of drivers, and not many kooks playing russian roulette. You need to look at percentages.

In any event, 16 year olds can't join the military, for good reason. Nor can 16 year-olds drive a car by themselves (here in CT) also for very good reason.