Parking on Canal Cape side

[mikecc]

Cape Rail is issueing notices of trestpass orders for PARKING on the cape side of the canal. For all you guys out there that wanted me to keep quite and not open a can of worms this is what you get. You are loosing access and doing nothing about it.

[Swimmer]

Fill us in a little more Mikey.

[mikecc]

Guys were fishing on the canal and came back to their cars with trespass notices on their windshields. Each has their plate # and location written on the citation. Please note these are from Cape rail and not the town.

[Raven]

but how are they going to enforce that fine to be collected?

or will they simply have your vehicle towed away

[BigFish]

Can you give us a specific location/locations where they are ticketing?? Curious......they can't write tickets unless its posted "NO PARKING"?? No??

[luds]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Can you give us a specific location/locations where they are ticketing?? Curious......they can't write tickets unless its posted "NO PARKING"?? No??

Yes, please list all the locations that are good to part at on the cape side! Thank you.

[The Dad Fisherman]

I would think that these tickets were issued because they were parking on Cape Rail property...can't see where they have the authority to write tickets if they are parked on Town Property

[BigFish]

Mike......we all know the spots to park and I have never caught fish there!

[luds]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Mike......we all know the spots to park and I have never caught fish there!

You may all know but I don't have a clue and I'm sick of dealing with the crowds on the other side. Telling me would save me the hassle of actually figuring it out myself. I'm part of the lazy internet fishing crowd.....ya know. I could look on a map but it wouldn't tell me where the no parking signs are so please fire away!

[Circlehook]

Wow. Are they ticketing all the dirt turn offs that people park at off the road?

I would think the skating rink is okay to park at, that is not owned by the rail company, right?

[mikecc]

When I talked to the police last time. They do not have to post their property. Thats why this is a trespass citation with no fine. This serves you notice and you are warned. 2nd time you are in violation you can be fined & / or prosecuted.

The last time I got involved with this matter some guys bitched and told me to keep it quiet. They said Don't fight it it's only wareham it would never happen on the canal.
I am Not getting involved any further

Good Luck

[JohnnyD]

Any way of finding out where the easements extend to? It's tough for me to believe that the rail property extends all the way to Rt. 6 on all of those dirt turn offs. Also, don't trespass notices have to be given to a person?

I'll be curious to hear Mike P.'s take, as he seems wired in pretty well to the details of these messes.

[HESH2]

in ct a certain spot had to CROSS THE TRAIN TRACS metro north came in with their police cars and taged cars with fines.also in ct amtrac police gave tickets if you again crossed tracs .1st spot lady on road would call police because of parking issues.thinking its a security type thing having to do with rails.

[Mike P]

If the railroad either owns the land where the cars were parked or it's part of their right-of-way, they can stop people from parking there. If they don't those trespass notices aren't worth the paper that they're printed on.

They can stop people from crossing the tracks--with the exception of at grade crossings. There are 3--maybe 4--grade crossings Capeside. The grade crossings are used by the Corps of Engineers--both Canal patrol vehicles and the John Deere tractors that the seasonal maintenece people drive. They're also used by the Bourne and State police, the EPOs and by Bourne DNR. Even the town's volunteer hering agent has a key to the gates that guard those crossing--IMO they can't stop people from crossing the tracks at a grade crossing.

To settle ownership of who owns what, you would have to go to Barnstable and look up the deeds and easements granted. My understanding was that the Corps owns the land that those tracks cross and the railroad has a right of way, probably for a set distance on either side of the tracks. But the railroad can legally prohibit the public from crossing the tracks where there isn't a designated grade crossing, regardless of whether it owns the railbed or has a right of way only.

Public use, unprotested and unterrupted by the owner or easement holder, can result in the public retaining their rights of passing, after a period of time (usually 20 years in most states). The signs and gates at those crossings were put there by the Corps, not the railroad--it's up to the Corps (in my opinion) to determine who can cross. The public is invited by the Corps to cross those tracks at the Bourne Bridge area, at minumum. There is also a "Warning--tracks in use" sign at Halfway Gate, and fishermen and bikers have used that crossing for at least the 40 years that I've fished the Canal. Up to now, unchallenged by the railroad.

And I think that the previous thread on this specifically mentioned that the railroad would allow the public to cross at those grade crossing access points.

[5/0]

I had parked @ half way gate Wednesday from 0445-0645 with no problems,I had also parked on the dirt and not the asphalt so I wasn't obstructing gate access but either way I guess I was on there property.
I wonder if this is random ticketing or just the beginning of hell to come.

[Mike P]

According to what Mike posted on the Cape Cod Tackle Facebook page, the notices were issued to cars parked on "6A 100 yards south of Ace Crossing".

I have no idea where Ace Crossing is. I do know that the railroad doesn't own a square inch of property 100 yards south of the tracks anywhere along the Canal.

I wonder whether the guys who issued it don't know south from east or west?

Also--Sandwich Road is not Route 6A. Route 6A branches left at the fork by the old Irving station and John's Capeside Diner in Sagamore--that's Cranberry Highway. The road that branches right and continues along the Canal is Sandwich Road.

The railroad's right of way can't possibly extend 100 yards south of the tracks anywhere. The road is less than 20 yards from the tracks in many places. The parking area at Portagee Hole has a guardrail that was not put there by the railroad--it was either put there by the Town of Bourne or Mass Higways.

[stripermaineiac]

Now correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there a whole bunch of public improvements all along the canal in the way of publicly maintained paths with wood cribbin to help with footing and also to contain erosion.These have been there for a very long time 20 yrs plus as I seem to recal. Public improvement ie eminent domain. They never said a thing about it till now. LOL sorry but they're a bit late. File a sease and decist order through the local court and push the issue.They're trying to bully their way through this. Every time one of us used these paths and the thousands of walkers,bike riders,joggers and so on used them goes towards public use and eminent domain.They tried this in Maine and the only place it stuck was on tressels dues to safety issues ie trains throwing brake shoes and such or people falling of due to the trains being too close.As far as puttin sitations on cars parked on a public road with dozens of pull outs just meant for parking to use all those paths well I bet a case of public harrasment would fit real well especially with all the years of public use of all those publicly maintained paths to back it up. Those trains go through how many times a day? But it's up to you guys. Snooze you loose. Your choice we fought our battle and came out ok. Ron

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by mikecc

When I talked to the police last time. They do not have to post their property. Thats why this is a trespass citation with no fine. This serves you notice and you are warned. 2nd time you are in violation you can be fined & / or prosecuted.

The last time I got involved with this matter some guys bitched and told me to keep it quiet. They said Don't fight it it's only wareham it would never happen on the canal.
I am Not getting involved any further

Good Luck

sorry to hear that Mike
this sucks

I think it is worth fighting for
I appreciate what you tried to do Mike to keep access for us.
Maybe MSBA or some other group can get involved to advocate for fishermen, since we don't seem to be to organized.

the railroad can't stop people from accessing the canal, especially at certain areas.

[stripermaineiac]

It only takes a couple and someone with a printer to get the ball rolling. Put some signs up for the joggers and bike riders to see with a contact number and a note as to the problem and help will come out of the woodwork like crazy.It just needs to be done local.Plus all the load shouldn't be put on Mike. I saw a couple hundred fishermen down there last week plus there are several other shops that would get involved like Canal Tackle and Red Top. Ron

[Pete F.]

Most towns have online tax maps that show property lines and descriptions, Bourne does not seem to have it on their website. In sandwich they don't seem to own much besides the right of way.

[Swimmer]

I would bet that the people having the so-called tickets issued are the new contractors that won the cape trash contract last year. I have a contact, maybe, with the company. I'll try getting in touch with him.


Made the call, no one home. Will await his return call. Hopefully he stills works for the trash company.

[Swimmer]

My friend recently left the employ of the trash train. His thoughts were that they are being sued because they hit "a kid", and this is probably why they are giving out the tickets. He had heard of this happening before but it had to do with people parking a few feet from the tracks, and so on, and only once or twice did anyone get one of these so-called tickets. He did say that he did not think any of the employees had any police powers. He also said that if he had any contact with the family who has the trash contract that he worked for he would ask them for any info on why someone is giving out these pieces of paper. My friend did say that the train's owner doesn't really like doing this because far to often certain people have thrown rocks through the engines windows as a result. So without knowing the full story about why the tickets are now given out, I would say just be prudent about where you park, and walk across the tracks, and dont trash the place.

[Mike P]

I am also of the opinion that the general public has an implied right to cross tracks at an established grade crossing. If the Corps of Engineers allows recreational users of the Canal to cross the tracks at their grade crossings, which they not only allow, but encourage by having parking areas at them, and posting "Warning--Tracks In Use" signs--there isn't a damn thing that the RR can do to stop them.

There are also whistle posts a set distance down the tracks at these grade crossings, and if an engineer sounds the whistle--which they are required to do by law--the RR can't be sued if someone jumps the tracks and gets hit--the same way that they can't be sued by the survivors of idiots who play race the train by driving around crossing gates.

There are no whistle posts anywhere else, and people may not hear the sound of a train approaching from downwind. I have also seen cases where fishermen crossing the tracks see a train approaching, but decide that a minute of their fishing time is worth more than their lives. All you need to do is trip over a rail or a tie and go down across the tracks--trains can't stop on a dime.

It also doesn't help that there's a history of Mo Beach kids playing chicken with the trash train from North Falmouth.

[Swimmer]

Lets not forget the Ipod users, who at high volume, listen to their favorite tunes. You wont here a slow moving train using those ear buds. I am hopeful my friend will get back to me with more info. He was actually quite surpised at hearing that these notices of tresspass were being given out. As I said, he told me that no one in the railroads employ has any police powers that he knows of. And in my opinon leaving those tresspass notices on vehicles and not handing them out to the tresspasser in person doesn't mean a thing. Certainly doesn't prove who he person was driving the car that the notice was put on. And the last time I checked, when a car is towed from private property it is the responsibilty of the entity that has the vehicle towed resposibilty to pay for the tow. We saw that ruling in Brockton District Court several years ago. I don't think deep down their is any problem. I believe someone is just CTA.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Lets not forget the Ipod users, who at high volume, listen to their favorite tunes. You wont here a slow moving train using those ear buds. I am hopeful my friend will get back to me with more info. He was actually quite surpised at hearing that these notices of tresspass were being given out. As I said, he told me that no one in the railroads employ has any police powers that he knows of. And in my opinon leaving those tresspass notices on vehicles and not handing them out to the tresspasser in person doesn't mean a thing. Certainly doesn't prove who he person was driving the car that the notice was put on. And the last time I checked, when a car is towed from private property it is the responsibilty of the entity that has the vehicle towed resposibilty to pay for the tow. We saw that ruling in Brockton District Court several years ago. I don't think deep down their is any problem. I believe someone is just CTA.

Yeah, I just said something to that effect on SOL, abut them CTA. By allowing unprotested cross track access, they are probably exposing themselves to liability if someone gets clipped by a train or otherwise gets hurt on the tracks. These notices at least create a record of trying some sort of enforcement. Until I hear that a Bourne PD cruiser is alongside the RR employee and an officer is issuing citations, I'm not going to panic over this.

Lots of the BPD guys also fish and the department doesn't make a habit of harrassing Canal fishermen--it takes repeated complaints from residents for them to address parking violations along the popular Canal spots that are time-restricted for parking. Earl Baldwin, the chief, fishes himself. Which is not to say that they won't make a response if too many people thumb their noses at the RR guys and cause the RR to complain to the chief. My suggestion is to be discreet, be respectful to anyone who gives you a notice, and maybe pick your access spots with discretion. It's easy for them to paper 3-4 cars at a tight turnout. Papering 100 vehicles parked, say, at Gallo's ice rink is a different matter. And if it's at all possible to use a grade crossing, use it.

I'm also thinking that this will all blow over once the topwater bite slows and things return to normal. It's just a prediction, but like I always say--crowds create problems for all of us. And even if the RR backs off, it is only a matter of time before a fisherman gets hit by a car over there, or an accident is caused by a Canal fisherman pulling out of one of those turnouts. And parking gets restricted along Sandwich Road as a result. Some people just don't use their heads in parking there. I've seen many cars parked dangerously close to the road over the last month. Remember--those boulders lining the turn-out near pole 230 weren't there 20 years ago

[Bob Thomas]

I googled the heck out of the guys name and found that he has something to do with safety and security or the like.

I think, like most said, these are CYA notices. They are by no means a citation....they can't write citations. These appear to be along the same idea as me writing a letter to Joe Blow to not come onto my property anymore or he will be subject to prosecution. It's just a notice that the offender can be prosecuted.

Swimmer & Mike - I believe back about 10 years ago or so, the state came up with some law requiring each and every railroad to have it's own "Police Agency" back when. I had 2 guys (Chief included) in my academy that were from a railroad with 2 miles of track. They were explaining it was an "Honorary" title but that each RR needed police. Maybe this guy is the "answer" Cape Rail came up with. He has no Police Powers but is in charge of Safety & Security and this is his way of covering the rails arse.

Yeah, I could see getting a call for that. If it were me, "Yeah, I'm enroute. Ok, now that was 2 crullers, 2 chocolate glazed....."

*** Edit *** Like I told Mike, it is best to keep a cool head. By attacking this fool etc. you are just giving him more ammunition to take the situation even further. If he is, in fact, in charge of the RR, I believe he also has the authority to seek criminal charges through the courts for any infractions, I.e. trespassing after notice. And don't think for a moment that he can't get your plate info. Everybody knows somebody (...sometimes)

[stripermaineiac]

The thing that seems to be missed here is that it's not tresspassing when permission has been implied by allowing both individuals and public agencies to make modifications and upgrades in the way of walkways and paths to permit access to the Canal walkways for public use. To go around putting notes on peoples vehicles is a form of harrassment that in it's self is both missleading and meant to bully people out of fear of litigation. They missed their opportunity to stop these practices of public access when they went along with and accepted public funds. Once you take public money you now have to allow some forms of public access.Like all those peirs that the Corp built for communities yrs ago.I beleive Mass even made people that built personal peirs that blocked public access put stairways to to allow people to walk or pass through them for the purpose of fishing and so on.It's nice to beleive in live an let live but that is now only a Fairy tale in todays society. access needs to be protected or it dissapears. If you don't deal with this now you'll see them putting up fences next.Just my 2 cents. i'm just a dumb striper fisherman LOL. All I'd like to do is catch stripers in all those spots that I no longer have access to because we just lived an let live without fighting for our rights too.