Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Today's Posts Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-24-2010, 07:05 AM   #1
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
Harry reid is a neo-con?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
RIJIMMY is offline  
Old 08-24-2010, 08:17 AM   #2
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
Harry reid is a neo-con?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I don't think he implied that. Rather that the controversy was ignited by neo-conservatives who see a broader enemy in Islam.

Reid is just jumping on the bandwagon, probably in an attempt to save his campaign. I've yet to hear a reasoned response, other than that he just feels that way.

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 08-24-2010, 08:26 AM   #3
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
I don't think he implied that. Rather that the controversy was ignited by neo-conservatives who see a broader enemy in Islam.

Reid is just jumping on the bandwagon, probably in an attempt to save his campaign. I've yet to hear a reasoned response, other than that he just feels that way.

-spence
you cant "ignite" something unless there is something to burn. People have stong emotions on this and we should have a national discussion. Paul's article is a mish-mash of thoughts that he tries to pull together, with the attitude of "I know more than those dumb americans". The data doesnt support his rant - Most americans are against the war(s) but also against the mosque. As much as the media and some politicians want to make it - there is no big anti-muslim backlash in this country. People live day to day without issue. As we come upon the 10th anniversary, its natural for the emotions to be high.

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline  
Old 08-24-2010, 08:57 AM   #4
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
you cant "ignite" something unless there is something to burn. People have stong emotions on this and we should have a national discussion.
The point being that plans for the Cordoba House have been underway for some time...but the story was made National on purpose, to serve a political purpose.

Quote:
Paul's article is a mish-mash of thoughts that he tries to pull together, with the attitude of "I know more than those dumb americans". The data doesnt support his rant - Most americans are against the war(s) but also against the mosque.
And as we've discussed, people seem to have some real misconceptions about the Iman and the intent of his proposed community center.

Quote:
As much as the media and some politicians want to make it - there is no big anti-muslim backlash in this country. People live day to day without issue. As we come upon the 10th anniversary, its natural for the emotions to be high.
There's a lot of Islamic resentment in this country. The comments you see right here on this board are a good sample.

What's ironic is that people (including yourself) are always asking, where are the moderates? where are the Islamic leaders condemning radicalism?

Well, the Imam in question just happens to be one of those people, and he's being made out by the Right Wing to be one of the hijackers himself.

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 08-24-2010, 09:27 AM   #5
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
And as we've discussed, people seem to have some real misconceptions about the Iman and the intent of his proposed community center.

Well, the Imam in question just happens to be one of those people, and he's being made out by the Right Wing to be one of the hijackers himself.

-spence
In the 2005 lecture the "moderate" imam said this about our country:


"We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al Qaida has on its hands of innocent non Muslims. You may remember that the US-led sanctions against Iraq led to the death of over half a million Iraqi children. This has been documented by the United Nations."


The "half-million Iraqi children died because of US sanctions" lie was also a favorite of both Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein who both used it in their hate-America propaganda. This whopper of a myth was first dreamed up by Saddam Hussein era Iraqi officials, in order to smear America and sway world opinion against the sanctions imposed on Saddam to stop him from expanding his "biological, chemical, nuclear, and missile-based weapons systems."

A detailed expose done by Reason magazine back 2002 debunked this lie and explained the origin of this myth. The article documented the deeply flawed studies that gave birth to this falsehood and the lack of objective and independent data to backup the outrageous claims.


"The idea that sanctions in Iraq have killed half a million children (or 1 million, or 1.5 million, depending on the hysteria of the source) took root in 1995 and 1996, on the basis of two transparently flawed studies, one inexplicable doubling of the studies' statistics, and a non-denial on 60 Minutes.

In August 1995, the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) gave officials from the Iraqi Ministry of Health a questionnaire on child mortality and asked them to conduct a survey in the capital city of Baghdad. On the basis of this five-day, 693-household, Iraq-controlled study, the FAO announced in November that "child mortality had increased nearly five fold" since the pre-sanctions era. As embargo critic Richard Garfield, a public health specialist at Columbia University, wrote in his own comprehensive 1999 survey of under-5 deaths in Iraq, "The 1995 study's conclusions were subsequently withdrawn by the authors....Notwithstanding the retraction of the original data, their estimate of more than 500,000 excess child deaths due to the embargo is still often repeated by sanctions critics."

In March 1996, the World Health Organization (WHO) published its own report on the humanitarian crisis. It reprinted figures -- provided solely by the Iraqi Ministry of Health -- showing that a total of 186,000 children under the age of 5 died between 1990 and 1994 in the 15 Saddam-governed provinces. According to these government figures, the number of deaths jumped nearly 500 percent, from 8,903 in 1990 to 52,905 in 1994."

I understand that there are many hours of Rauf's greatest hits about to be made public...maybe that will help clear up the misconceptions that all of the "Metasticized Islamophobes" are under....isn't that how Daisy put it?

I've heard a number of actual "moderate" muslims recently point out that Rauf speaks with two faces and they have quite specifically pointed out associations and affiliations that are more than curious...Andy McCarthy has written extensively and is one who would know...his dear friend and Rabbi apparently doubts that he even has the organization to build the mosque...which would really make you wonder what this is really all about...

Last edited by scottw; 08-24-2010 at 09:53 AM..
scottw is offline  
Old 08-24-2010, 09:53 AM   #6
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
In the 2005 lecture the "moderate" imam said this about our country:


"We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al Qaida has on its hands of innocent non Muslims. You may remember that the US-led sanctions against Iraq led to the death of over half a million Iraqi children. This has been documented by the United Nations."
I'm not sure I'd trust Reason Manazine (whatever that is???) as my source of record, but the claims of increased infant mortality associated with UN sanctions didn't come from Bin Laden, they came from Unicef.

And the quote, in context of the discussion, is entirely appropriate. The fact that you don't buy the argument the US has innocent blood on our hands is moot. The Islamic world does believe it and that's critical to understanding how we see one another.

If you expect a "moderate" to only see your side of things you're not only being short-sighted, but contributing to the problem.

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 08-24-2010, 12:17 PM   #7
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
I'm not sure I'd trust Reason Manazine (whatever that is???) as my source of record...
UPDATE: I'm not sure I'd still trust them as the final word on the issue, but it's a good website I wasn't aware of

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 08-24-2010, 12:40 PM   #8
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
And the quote, in context of the discussion, is entirely appropriate. The fact that you don't buy the argument the US has innocent blood on our hands is moot. The Islamic world does believe it and that's critical to understanding how we see one another.

If you expect a "moderate" to only see your side of things you're not only being short-sighted, but contributing to the problem.

-spence
I'd suggest that a so-called "moderate" who is publicly parroting the vile lies and distortions of thugs, dictators and terrorists is contributing far more to "the problem"...

Last edited by scottw; 08-24-2010 at 12:49 PM..
scottw is offline  
 

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com