We're screwed on Sea bass!

[afterhours]

instead of the usual "let's kill 'em 'till there gone"...i think it's good to be proactive for once. sure wish they'd treat stripers the same way.

[Mr. Sandman]

Like I said elsewhere...fishery agency problems are unfix-able.

Turning on and off fisheries is not "management".

The "1500 fish / month is not enough for you?" thinking is rampant esp when comm fishermen are pitted against recs. I would bet no one fishes anywhere near that much as it is asinine to make such assumptions. In reality most people will stop fishing for them when the catch limit is low. Look at Tog in MA...3/day, many of the fishing reports show guys not even trying because it is not worth it for a 3 bag limit. I heard the same argument for fluke when cuts there were being battered about.


What I want to know is if NMF folks are assuming we go every day and take our limit? That is what is sounds like. If not what is their assumption(s) to assume a 45% reduction?

[InTheHole]

[QUOTE=Mr. Sandman;811948]Like I said elsewhere...fishery agency problems are unfix-able.

Turning on and off fisheries is not "management".

That is a good point, if the stock is in such dire straits that we go from 20 to 1 bag limit, how is it possible that "they" did not see this coming 1 or 2 seasons ago and make adjustments then? Maybe we just don't have all the facts at hand.... but this just does not add up.

[Mr. Sandman]

[QUOTE=InTheHole;811970]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

Like I said elsewhere...fishery agency problems are unfix-able.

Turning on and off fisheries is not "management".

That is a good point, if the stock is in such dire straits that we go from 20 to 1 bag limit, how is it possible that "they" did not see this coming 1 or 2 seasons ago and make adjustments then? Maybe we just don't have all the facts at hand.... but this just does not add up.

"They" (Fishery groups) used the same "logic" for SB..complete moratorium....maybe it was warranted but THEY HAD BEEN MAGAGING THE SPECIES FOR DECADES PRIOR!!! This is what kills me...they keep patting themselves on the back for a job well done and saving the bass but in FACT they did nothing in terms of actually managing the species. The fact is THEY were (and still are) more part of the problem then the solution. This is why fishery management is an unfixable problem. The government must disband all fishery departments and start with some conservative approaches. This harvesting the maximum yield theory does not work. We should not consider the oceans a farm and try to squeeeeze every last drop of resource from it.

[MAKAI]

Any idea why the word " Harvest " is used so much ?
Wouldn't harvest imply farming, taking care of the land, seeding, nurturing then harvesting. Then do it all over next season.
I don't see a parallel.

" Harvest " is the wrong word.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Any idea why the word " Harvest " is used so much ?
Wouldn't harvest imply farming, taking care of the land, seeding, nurturing then harvesting. Then do it all over next season.
I don't see a parallel.

" Harvest " is the wrong word.

"Harvest" sounds better than "Kill".

Is hamburger "harvested"?

[robc22]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

"Harvest" sounds better than "Kill".

Is hamburger "harvested"?

The fish and game folks apply the word "harvest" when referring to hunting as well .......as in harvesting a deer.....go figure?

[numbskull]

I suspect the result of the fluke mess has been to shift recreational fishing pressure onto seabass and the ASMFC suspects the current level of pressure is unsustainable.

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

"Harvest" sounds better than "Kill".

Is hamburger "harvested"?

true that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

HARVEST is also used because we are referring to a natural resource.
as in the ocean is the "field", the species are the "crop", and we are the "farmers".

ahhhhh, yes; but, will we be GOOD stewards of our Provision~~~ that is THE question!!!

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by afterhours

instead of the usual "let's kill 'em 'till there gone"...i think it's good to be proactive for once. sure wish they'd treat stripers the same way.

Exactly my thought. Unfortunately, many people have a mindset of "if fisheries managers aren't letting us exploit a species to the fullest, then they aren't doing their job."

That mentality is working at well for the striped bass.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Exactly my thought. Unfortunately, many people have a mindset of "if fisheries managers aren't letting us exploit a species to the fullest, then they aren't doing their job."

That mentality is working at well for the striped bass.

The stock is at 150% of the msy biomass. They are supposed to manage to the msy biomass, that is the law. The problem is twofold 1) they don't believe their own numbers and 2) they are taking so many
'precautionary" measures that it makes the stock assessment meaningless. If they managed striped bass like this we wouldn't have a 2011 season!

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by afterhours

instead of the usual "let's kill 'em 'till there gone"...i think it's good to be proactive for once. sure wish they'd treat stripers the same way.

If they did manage striped bass this way we would't have a season!

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by robc22

The fish and game folks apply the word "harvest" when referring to hunting as well .......as in harvesting a deer.....go figure?

Just another example of the same situation. Sounds better to the general public to say the animals were "harvested" than "killed". The whole thing seems silly to me and it's merely done as a PR thing.

Originally Posted by MakoMike

The stock is at 150% of the msy biomass. They are supposed to manage to the msy biomass, that is the law. The problem is twofold 1) they don't believe their own numbers and 2) they are taking so many
'precautionary" measures that it makes the stock assessment meaningless. If they managed striped bass like this we wouldn't have a 2011 season!

MSV is a terrible metric that is impossible to reliably compute because it is based on numbers with a massive margin for error.

Some precaution might just be a good thing. I wish they'd use some precaution when managing striped bass. While you say that if they managed striped bass like this you wouldn't have a season, I say that if they don't *start* managing striped bass like this then eventually there will be no fish to have a season for.

[JackK]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

If they did manage striped bass this way we would't have a season!

If they cut the S-B daily take by ~40 percent, and increased the size limit, we'd have 1 fish per day at 36", which many people (myself included) seem to be in favor of.