Lure of the Month / bi-week, bi-weekly curious - Part Deaux

[numbskull]

I've got some strong opinions about this plug, since I feel (rightly or wrongly) that I was at the front of their revival. And a revival is what we are talking about, since very few guys have and fish the originals.
In that, there is a problem, since all sorts of copies now exist (a situation that parallels "danny plugs") and many of those copies use the shape and lip but miss the subtleties that make the plug do its thing.
Further complicating matters, even the originals varied greatly (by as much as an ounce), and furthermore guys changed hook options to change weighting more. The end result is that there is a ton of variability in these plugs.

So there are 3 sizes, a peanut, a Jr (2.5-3oz) and a Sr (3.5-4 oz).
A good one will float level with the high point of its back just barely out of the water.
It will have a lip mounted above midline and its line tie will be just below midline (this helps get the plug deep and stable). Sometimes guys upsized the front hook on the JR model....supposedly to get it deeper. I find the Jr the most useful size. I've not fished a peanut.

I disagree that these plugs are good fast water plugs. Quite the contrary in my experience. They struggle in the canal. They have too big a wobble at speed and pull to the top. Rather, these plugs are superb deep running plugs at SLOW speeds. They will get down to 8-10 feet, then stay moving level as you slow them slightly. They tend to suspend when you pause them and most hits come when they are stopped. They do well in outflows (I suspect since my experience here is limited) because you can swim them backwards yet still hold some depth on the way out, then crawl them along the seam slow coming back in once they pop out of the flow.

They really excel fishing off jetties since, like eels, they get down and stay down where fish hunt. Another nice feature is that their low slung lip and slow level swimming motion means that if you pay attention you can bump bottom, hesitate a moment, and rise over obstructions without hanging up. You need some height (like a jetty or big rock) to fish them, however, or else you spent 3/4 of your time trying to get them back through the final 2-5 feet deep water.

By day/boat I've not done very well. Fish seem to follow them without hitting, and I've had some spectacular bass ghost up to the transom then sink away. I think this is a problem with plugs in general by day. Something deep and slow a big bass knows is not getting away from her, so she takes her time to examine it. Surface stuff is harder for the fish to investigate so if it looks helpless they'll strike.

Something else worth adding. Conrads are not the only game in town to get deep. The Musso maple and Musso Pine swim at similar depths (although maybe not as slowly). The Musso slope head is the best FAST water diving design I've found so far.

[WoodyCT]

I've seen them in all manner of woods, but isn't maple what the originator used, seeing that it is dense and will give the plug the depth it is designed for?

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

I've seen them in all manner of woods, but isn't maple what the originator used, seeing that it is dense and will give the plug the depth it is designed for?

No. They were pine, but all different sorts of pine and all kinds of weights. The wood type doesn't matter as long as the plug is weighted correctly to float the way I described, and the correct lip mounted at the correct height is used. The depth any weighted plug achieves comes more from the lip geometry and line tie position than from what wood is used.

[Back Beach]

I find the Jr size ones bite better than the Sr, especially in current.

I made a bunch of Sr. sized ones and thought they sucked until I listened to Numby's explanation on how to use them. They're not diving plugs, they're "descending" plugs that need some patience to work properly. A long cast or free spooling in current helps attain the maximum depth as the further away from you they get, the deeper you can get them to descend.

[Swimmer]

How does the conrad lip make such a difference as opposed to a lip used on a danny? Is it a deep diver because the of the turned up edges?

Oh, and could Numbskull be kind enough to put up for viewing his schem's of the plug with out actually putting all the info up. Like you did with the Lido?

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

How does the conrad lip make such a difference as opposed to a lip used on a danny? Is it a deep diver because the of the turned up edges?

Oh, and could Numbskull be kind enough to put up for viewing his schem's of the plug with out actually putting all the info up. Like you did with the Lido?

All this stuff is available in the plug forum, including xrays of the plugs and pictures of the lips. I'm pretty sure there are dimensions posted as well, if not Paul would have them (I just measure as i go).

The turned up edges just narrow a lip to produce less roll.
The Conrad lip works because there is a high line slot, and a long distance between the line tie and bottom portion of the lip that serves to tilt the plug forward and down. The weight of the plug has less to do with it, but obviously the less buoyancy the lip has to overcome the better (until you get into shallow water at which point you need some buoyancy to get it back up and in).

[numbskull]

So does anybody else have experience fishing these things in breachways? Are you fishing the inside curve or outside (uptide) side?
You drifting them or casting and swinging across?

How about trolling? Anybody dragged one on wire? Maybe with a skin?

[numbskull]

A Sr and a Jr.